[ANSTHRLD] OP question - Court Baronies and Baronies in fief

[Jay Rudin]

Morgan wrote:


> Allow me to play the devil's advocate against your argument.
>
> We're going to use 2 example couples who don't really exist.  Neither of
> these people carry patents of arms nor were they ennobled prior to their
> elevation.
>
> Bob is made Baron of Summerland on 1/1/2000.  Doug is made Baron of
> Autumnland on 1/1/2002.
>
> Doug steps down as Baron on 1/1/2005.  Bob steps down as Baron on 
> 1/1/2007.
>
> Bob was "ennobled" 2 years before Doug.  He served as Baron longer.  He
> stepped down after.  But under the model of dating a CB to the date the CB
> was conferred (virtually alway the day they step down) Doug would
> out-precedence Bob.
>
> To my way of thinking, this makes absolutely zero sense.

You're correct, which is why the precedence of the court barony is from the 
original investiture, *at the pleasure of the Crown*.  The court baronial 
scroll should give the date that they were gfiven the court baronies, when 
they stepped down, but it should also have a clause granting precedence from 
the original investiture.

> The only argument I can see is that the conferance isn't automatic.  With
> the precious few times we've had someone step down as B&B and they weren't
> conferred CBs, had these people already added supporters to their
> achievement?  If so, were these supporters stripped?

This is the easiest question in the entire thread.  No, the supporters were 
never stripped, but they never belonged to the individuals.  While they were 
landed barons, any supporters they had belonged to the barony, and go with 
the baronial arms.  When I was baron of the Steppes, I had the right to two 
Grices Or as supporters -- and I displayed them, supporting my arms, which 
were the Steppes Arms.

Those supporters were not stripped.  They are still there, supporting the 
Steppes Arms for Mahdi and Valeria.  I never had the right to have the 
grices supporting my personal arms with the mustache.

Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin