[ANSTHRLD] Quick check if I may

ravenrux at cox.net ravenrux at cox.net
Thu Aug 21 07:21:26 PDT 2008

I wouldn't think you could do that with just a plate.  Look at the other examples, they all have complex edges.

I don't see how '(fieldless) a plate' as a badge differs from 'argent.'  This seems suspiciously like blazoning out of a conflict to me.

Perhaps there's some other rule or precedence I'm missing.

---- Crandall <crandalltwo-scalists at yahoo.com> wrote: 
Thanks Daniel, I knew I had remembered something
of this, but was foggy, as usual. 


--- tmcd at panix.com wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, kevinkeary at aol.com
> <heralds at lists.ansteorra.org> wrote:
> > I'd be surprised if "fieldless, a plate"
> wasn't clear.
> Nit: the standard wording in LoARs would be
> "(Fieldless) A plate".
> > One CD for fieldless, one for "You can't just
> register a plate all
> > by itself."  But I haven't checked.
> I find the Solveig precedent in April 2002,
> upheld in May 2007.
>   Solveig Throndardottir. Badge. (Fieldless) A
> lozenge Or.
>     The lozenge was originally blazoned as
> fesswise, but, as noted in
>     the February 2002 LoAR, "Because lozenges
> could be drawn with
>     various proportions in period, including a
> square set on its
>     corner (which can be neither fesswise nor
> palewise), it does not
>     make sense to distinguish different
> proportions of lozenge in
>     blazon."
>     We do not register fieldless badges which
> appear to be independent
>     forms of armorial display. Charges such as
> lozenges, billets, and
>     roundels are all both standard heraldic
> charges and "shield
>     shapes" for armorial display. The SCA has
> never protected armory
>     consisting of plain tinctures, except for
> two examples that are
>     particularly famous: the (important
> non-SCA) arms of Brittany,
>     Ermine, and the (important non-SCA) flag of
> Libya, Vert. If we do
>     not protect, and have never protected, the
> arms Or, we should not
>     be concerned about the possible appearance
> of a display of Or by
>     using a single lozenge Or as a fieldless
> badge. This is parallel
>     to our practices concerning inescutcheons
> of pretense. To quote
>     RfS XI.4, Arms of Pretense and
> Augmentations of Honor, "Similarly,
>     an augmentation of honor often, though not
> necessarily, takes the
>     form of an independent coat placed on an
> escutcheon or
>     canton. Generally, therefore, a canton or a
> single escutcheon may
>     only be used if it is both uncharged and of
> a single tincture."
>     This rule demonstrates that an uncharged
> escutcheon shape in a
>     single plain tincture does not appear to be
> a display of an
>     independent coat of arms.
>     Therefore, a "shield shape" which is also a
> standard heraldic
>     charge will be acceptable as as a fieldless
> badge in a plain
>     tincture, as long as the tincture is not
> one of the plain
>     tinctures that is protected armory in the
> SCA. This explicitly
>     overturns the precedent "We do not normally
> register fieldless
>     badges consisting only of forms of armorial
> display, such as
>     roundels, lozenges and delfs in plain
> tinctures, since in use the
>     shape does not appear to be a charge, but
> rather the field itself"
>     (LoAR January 1998).
>     Note that this does not change our
> long-standing policy about such
>     "shield shape" charges used in fieldless
> badges if the tincture is
>     not plain (thus, divided or with a field
> treatment), or if the
>     charge is itself charged. Such armory will
> continue to be returned
>     for the appearance of an independent form
> of armorial display.
>     Her badge, (Fieldless) On a sun azure a
> hammer argent, is
>     released.
> But conflict with
>     Erryk Blackwolf|7306|B|Per bend sinister
> sable and gules, a plate.
> The May 2007 confirmation has
>   Isabeau de Valle. Badge. (Fieldless) On a
> plate fimbriated gules a
>   hare courant sable.
>       As noted on the LoI:
>            The SCA considers simple-edged
> roundels to be a medium
>            for heraldic display, and does not
> register badges
>            that start "(Fieldless) On a
> roundel..." ...
>       This is sufficient grounds for return.
> ...
> The "simple-edged" part is not in the original
> ruling but at least was
> not contradicted in May 2007, though that's a
> weak argument.
> "(Fieldless) A plate nebuly", maybe?!
> Dannet "tasteless^W tacky^W disreputable spooge
> joke omitted" Lincoln
> -- 
> Tim McDaniel; Reply-To: tmcd at panix.com
> _______________________________________________
> Heralds mailing list
> Heralds at lists.ansteorra.org

Heralds mailing list
Heralds at lists.ansteorra.org

More information about the Heralds mailing list