[ANSTHRLD] [Fwd: Heraldry announcement for Commentary

kevinkeary at aol.com kevinkeary at aol.com
Fri Jul 11 11:17:13 PDT 2008

Francesca fumed:

>Correct me if I am wrong but as a member of two baronial guards (long 
>I remember sitting with the local herald of both Baronies at different
>points in time while designing baronial tabards and was reminded that 
we, as
>a populace, could not wear the Baronial Arms. That is reserved only for
>banners and for the sitting B&B or B to wear.

Close. Add a herald who is speaking FOR the b/b AT THE TIME. The 
baronial herald who is merely acting in his office cannot wear a tabard 
with the baronial arms on it.

>Anyhow, I am against the change. I have to agree with Da'ud that this 
>to be more about "new broom sweeps clean" syndrome that hits when the 
>changes over than about public opinion or periodness (sp?). I mean, can
>someone quote a book or heck even a url with a device that uses a
>representation of their peerage inside the shield as opposed to 
outside the
>shield yet? If not, there goes that periodness argument as well.

I'd hate to be in a situation where a new peer thinks changing their 
device is needed, or even appropriate, merely because their rank has 
changed. I agree that such things should be relegated to the 

>What this call is about: they want general public's opinion not just 
that of
>the colleges. So it is for every (wo)man so to speak, to ... speak up 
>say yea or nay. Discussing it on this list is one thing, it matters 
not who
>you are, sending in your comments to the office asking for this is 
>much better. :)

Hear, hear. But hearing what wiser heads on THIS forum have to say is 
helping me make up my mind as to how strongly I feel, or whether I 
should change my mind, before I do so. Robin and Sara have both 
presented very good arguments for opposing conclusions (on the 
wreath-and-territorial branch issue. I haven't seen much discussion on 
the wreath-for-laurel-peers issue.)

It may (or may not) be of interest to you that when Northkeep (shire) 
sent in its arms submission lo these many years ago, the laurel wreath 
was vert, which had nice contrast with the argent saltire it was mostly 
on AND the Gules field it was partly on (as an overall charge). The 
College was forced to apply the then-and-now interpretation of the rule 
of tinctures and change the wreath to Or, since it was an overall 
charge on a Color field. The net result is that it has poor contrast 
with the saltire and, IMO, poorer contrast with what little of the 
field it touches than our original choice would have. It's nearly 
impossible to see from a distance. If this rule is changed, I intend to 
Suggest to our B&B and Seneschal that they consider a device-change 
submission removing it, since it mostly now functions as useless 
clutter that gives our seamstresses headaches and we have little-to-no 
hope of ever getting the interpretation of the Rule changed.

That will exacerbate another problem, of course, one you reminded me 
of. OUR baronial guard tabards currently bear our arms with the laurel 
wreath removed. I've already told our baron that's not correct, but I 
haven't pressed the issue. Making our baronial arms identical to those 
tabards, before we register a badge for the guard to wear properly, 
would make the problem worse.


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