[ANSTHRLD] req. for help with name conflict check: Elizabeta dellaRosa

[Tim McDaniel]

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008, Ron <eirik at hot.rr.com> wrote:
> Keep in mind that I know very little about name documentation and
> conflict.

The Rules for Submission are at
<http://sca.org/heraldry/laurel/rfs.html>  Part V is the part with
name-conflict rules.

> I found the following:
>
> Elizabeth Blackrose registered 10/97 through Trimaris.
> Elizabeth de Rose registered 07/02 through Atenveldt.
> Elizabeth of Rosewood registered 08/91 through Atlantia.
> Elizabeth of the Blue Rose registered 03/89 through the West.
>
> All but Elizabeth de Rose would be clear because of the difference
> in languages

The start of part V (after the general princple) is

     V.1. Personal Names. - Personal names must be significantly
        different from other protected personal names.

        a. Difference of Name Phrases -- Two name phrases are
        considered significantly different if they differ significantly
        in sound _and_ appearance. Name phrases that are not
        significantly different are said to be equivalent.

Note "sound and appearance".  Language and meaning are not factors in
this general principle.  Meaning does appear in some of the
subclauses:
- i.  Given Names: diminutives
- ii.a Bynames of Relationship - Two bynames of relationship are
   significantly different if the natures of the relationships or the
   objects of the relationships are significantly different.
- but ii.b expressly says "Two locative bynames need not refer to
   different places in order to be considered significantly different;
   they need only look and sound sufficiently different."  That is,
   meaning is NOT significant here
Language does not appear in the rules.  I'm pretty sure that there's a
precedent relating to that, but I haven't the time at the moment to
look it up.

> I believe there would be a difference between de and della, but I am
> not sure.

     ii. Bynames - Two bynames are significantly different if they look
     and sound significantly different. In general the addition or
     deletion of prepositions and articles is not significant.

Note that last: "de" and "della" does not contribute to clearing
conflict.

V.1.b says

     b. Conflict of Personal Names - Two personal names conflict unless
        at least one of the following conditions is met.

        i. Given Names - Two personal names do not conflict if the
           given names are significantly different.

        ii. Number of Name Phrases - A personal name containing at most
            two name phrases does not conflict with any personal name
            containing a different number name phrases.

        iii. Order of Name Phrases - Two personal names that contain
             equivalent name phrases arranged in different orders do
             not conflict if the change in order significantly changes
             the meaning of the name as a whole.

        iv. Change of Name Phrases - Two personal names do not conflict
            if each contains a name phrase that is significantly
            different from every name phrase in the other.

with many examples that I've trimmed here.

So Elizabeth de Rose and Elizabeta della Rosa would have to clear
because of Elizabeth<->Elizabeta or Rose<->Rosa, and I'm almost
certain that neither pair is "significantly different".

Dannet de Lyncoln
-- 
Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com