[ANSTHRLD] Heraldic Heirs

[Darin Herndon]

I wrote:
> Group armory cannot be transferred or released without the Crown's
> approval and sign off.

Daniel challenged:
Cite?  I know of no such rule.  AH III.A.1 says "In the case of
defunct Society branches, release may be granted by joint consent of
the Crown and Kingdom Seneschal after appropriate notice in the
newsletter of the kingdom in which the branch was located.", but that
refers to branches that are already defunct.

Daniel is correct to challenge my blanket statement.  What I should have written to be correct would be:  "Group armory for any defunct group cannot be transferred or released without the Crown's approval and sign off."  An active group's releases or transfers would require the signatures of local nobility or seneschal.

Once a group is defunct, the Crown and Kingdom Seneschal have to consent for a release (Daniel cited the AH entry).  For a transfer, once a group is defunct and the name and arms are under the kingdom control, AH IV.C.6 notes in its second paragraph:
"For branches with a ruling noble, a statement of transfer must be signed by the ruling nobles, in consultation with the seneschal and the herald; for branches without a ruling noble, a transfer must be signed by the seneschal, n consultation with the herald. In either case, the physical signatures (or a facsimile thereof) of the owner and recipient are required. Consultation with a larger group of members is encouraged, but does not need to be documented with a petition of support."

Once the items default to the kingdom ownership, there is a ruling noble (the Crown) and they have to sign off on a transfer.

The case of a heraldic will for a group would be a preempt of the existing rules defining a transfer of ownership to the kingdom for a defunct group.  The Crown, with additional consent of the BoD, gave the group the right to exist and carved out Crown lands to be the holding of the group.  Once the group goes defunct, all property, lands, and any improvements thereon (including the registration of arms tied to the lands themselves) devolve back to the Crown.  So, I would still argue that the Crown needs to consent to the heraldic will as it releases or abrogates defined rights to inherit or receive back property basically held for them by their subject group.  But all of this is an argument, not cited rules.

For non-defunct groups, the second paragraph of AH IV.C.6 makes it clear that the local nobility (if any) or the local seneschal handle the signatory approvals of such a transfer.  I could not find an explicit reference anywhere in the AH on the release of armory or names by an active group (in the same manner that there is the explicit entry for a transfer) so I would presume that the same people are the required signatories for a release as for a transfer.

Etienne

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