[ANSTHRLD] Flower question.

Tim McDaniel tmcd at panix.com
Mon Jul 13 16:08:21 PDT 2009

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009, Cisco Cividanes <engtrktwo at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IMG_1527Dogwood.jpg
[Cornus florida]

> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cornus_sanguinea_jfg.jpg
> And for people wondering where this question came from. A proposed
> badge of mine displays four dogwood flowers. As they are drawn, they
> depict the species of dogwood that I understand to be native to
> Europe. It has been pointed out that the badge might be rejected on
> the grounds that these flowers do not match previously passed
> devices that displays what are distinctly a round petaled flower
> like the type found in north America or China.

It would not be returned.  My apologies if I gave that impression at
the consultation table.   Rules for Submission VII.4,
<http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/rfs.html#7.4>, quoted in full
below, is explicit that European flora can be registered (ceteris
paribus) and is not a step from period practice.  The emblazon you
showed me had long skinny flowers like C. sanguinea.

The only thing I would expect to be argued is the blazon.  I'd have to
do a precedents dive, but I would not be surprised if some previous
Laurel defined the flower of Cornus florida to be the default dogwood
flower.  Wikipedia at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornus_florida>
says that it's "Flowering Dogwood" and it's "native to eastern North
America".  That's the dogwood that Americans would ID as "dogwood".
not knowing of the Common Dogwood, Cornus sanguinea,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Dogwood>, "native to most of
Europe and western Asia, occurring north to southern England and
southern Scandinavia, and east to the Caspian Sea", or any of the
other 30ish species of dogwoods and cornels that have flowers similar
to yours.

If Laurel did define a North American species as the heraldic default,
then I too would think that it's whack.

     4. Period Flora and Fauna. - Flora and fauna that were known in
        the period and domain of the Society may be registered in

        Flora and fauna documented as having been used as charges in
        period heraldry, including crests and badges, will not be
        considered a step from period practice. This includes New World
        and sub-Saharan African flora and fauna.

        The use of flora and fauna native to Europe, including coastal
        waters, that cannot otherwise be documented as heraldic charges
        will not be considered a step from period practice. While some
        flora (such as roses and lilies) and fauna (such as lions and
        dogs) are much more common than others, there is still a wide
        practice of using a variety of flora and fauna in period

        The use of flora and fauna native to the New World, Africa,
        Asia, and other non-European locales will be registerable if it
        is reasonable to believe that Europeans knew them in
        period. Their use will be considered a step from period
        practice, unless they were used as charges in period heraldry,
        including crests and badges, in which case their use is not a

        Consider a turkey and a manatee: they are both New World fauna,
        but the turkey is documented as part of a crest in period
        armory. The use of a turkey, therefore, is not a step from
        period practice. The use of a manatee as a charge, pending
        evidence that it was used in period armory, is a step from
        period practice.

        Hybrids or mutations of period forms known to have been
        developed after 1600 generally may not be used as charges. For
        example, the English Sheepdog may not be used in Society armory
        because it was developed after 1600.

Danel Lincoln
Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com

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