[ANSTHRLD] Pull the Files - Coronet Arms

Diane Rudin serena1570 at yahoo.com
Thu Jul 23 23:32:13 PDT 2009

Emma SPH wrote:

> So I'm guessing that yes, the arms that are now styled for the Crown
> Prince/Princess were in fact originally created for the Principality
> of Ansteorra, and were carried over for the heirs use later on. I have
> no idea how/when the names were adjusted in the OandA.

I asked Robin, who was working with both the heralds and the Crown 
during Lloyd's first reign (when most of the paperwork housekeeping 
of the founding of the kingdom got done), what the intent was at the time.

The intent of Aureliane, then-SPH, was to keep the Territorial P's arms 
as arms for the CP's.

Robin doesn't know whether a piece of paper was ever sent in officially, 
but does recall that Aureliane was a good friend of then-Laurel KoA, Wilhelm,
and it is probable that the intent was communicated at least verbally.

It may be impossible to completely re-create the paperwork trail of the 
intervening 30 years.  That does not invalidate the fact that a conscious
decision was made to keep the TerrP's arms for the CP's.

Unfortunately, during our 2007 library renovation, I tossed all of the old
O&A's into the recycling bin, believing that there was no need for them
anymore now that we have the online O&A.  (We do still have a copy of 
the 1986 RfS, if anyone cares.)  Just goes to show....

Going forward, I think we should quietly retire the CP arms to antiquity status,
and encourage the use of the royal arms + label form.  I do NOT think that
the Queen's arms should be discontinued, for purely emotional reasons that 
have no basis in or consideration for historical-use arguments at all.  (I suspect
that a lot of Ansteorran Roses, as well as rapier fighters, would share my
irrational feelings.)

If we decide to keep using the CP arms, we really need to get people to draw
it according to the registered form of the arms (with the wreath interlacing the 
star) instead of the kingdom arms with the crown filed off.  (Of course, I can't
even get people in the barony I live in to draw the baronial arms correctly; I do 
seem to be drawn to windmills at which to tilt....)


P.S.  I remember the discussion that ensued when Rowan won Crown as to what
arms would be used as the kingdom arms, which chair Hector would sit in, etc.  
As set out in Ansteorran Gazette #13, January 1991, by Tadhg, then-SPH, both
Rowan and Hector could use the kingdom arms ("being arms of dominion"), but
only Rowan could use the Queen's arms ("since they are so designated"). 
(Hey, Robert, I think it would be great to have a bunch of this stuff on the Rowan 
& Hector page, don't you?)


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