[ANSTHRLD] Anton de LaTour: tower, grapevine, bordure

Brian O'hUilliam brianoftheloch at gmail.com
Wed Oct 7 17:29:54 PDT 2009

The grapevine is on the right side of the tower, very hard to see in this
drawing.  It would most likely be returned for redraw.


On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Oct 2009, Joe McGrew <oscagne at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Consult help
>> I'd like to ask help on a consultation.
> That's one of the major purposes of the list, so by all means do so!
> In future questions, please put a specific name or description into
> the subject line, like
>    Subject: Anton de LaTour name
>    Subject: Anton de LaTour: tower, grapevine, bordure
> or whatever.  That helps people who want to refer to a particular
> threadlet, instead of trying to distinguish generic subjects like
> "Consult help" versus "Help, please" versus ...
> The client is requesting the name Anton de Latour.  He is also
>> requesting the following description for a device:
>> "The field is argent. It has a sable bordure with an argent  fleur de
>> lis pattern.  in the center there is a tower azure (the tower has an
>> open door, and three shaded verticle rectangular windows) on top of
>> the tower there is a sable lion passant guardant. Under the tower
>> there is a grapevine in its natural colorings that extends to both
>> sides of the tower that don’t quite reach the lion."
>> He provided the following sketch:
>> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3478/3991430558_08d27e67a5_o.jpg
> Um, I seem to be missing something, because I cannot see a grapevine
> in there anywhere.
> I have attempted to blazon it, but would like some confirmation:
>> Argent, on a tower azure charged with a grapevine proper a lion
>> passant guardant sable all within a bordure sable semee-de-lis
>> argent.
> "On" = "charged with".  The CoA Glossary of Terms at
> <http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/coagloss.html#appendix> notes that
> "above" and "upon" are ambiguous, but suggests "atop" as being
> appropriate.
> The doors and windows on the tower are artistic details that are not
> blazoned.  If I can't see a grapevine, I can't blazon it, so
> Argent, atop a tower azure a lion passant guardant sable, all within a
> bordure sable semy-de-lis argent.
> Tinctures: argent + azure + sable
> Charges: tower + lion + bordure + fleur-de-lys
> Rule-of-thumb complexity: 7.  As noted in another reply to your note,
> if there were a grapevine proper, it would add vert + brown at least,
> blowing past the rule-of-thumb limit and probably causing a return.
> (I think actual grapes would be present only if you specified
> "fructed", but I don't have a Pict Dict handy to check.)
> Danel Lincoln
> --
> Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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