[ANSTHRLD] {TH}orkell {o,}lf_ss - another device attempt

[doug bell]

There is an earlier ruling on Reyna.

Magnus

[August 2006 LoAR, R-Northshield] Reyna Thorne. Device. 
Gyronny arrondi sable and argent, a mullet of eight points counterchanged. 
This device is returned for conflict with the badge of Anna af Aarnimetsä, 
Gyronny sable and argent, a mullet counterchanged. There is a CD but not a 
substantial difference between a mullet (of five points) and a mullet of 
eight points. While in the past a CD has been granted for quarterly versus 
quarterly arrondi (q.v. Br{o,}ndólfr the Stout, 03/03, A-Middle), there is 
no difference between gyronny and gyronny arrondi (q.v. Ingvarr Halvarson, 07/05, R-Outlands). 
The 2003 ruling was not clear whether it applied only to quarterly arrondi or to all arrondi fields. 
At this time we are explicitly ruling that there is not a CD between gyronny and gyronny arrondi.



> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 02:29:01 -0500
> From: tmcd at panix.com
> To: heralds at lists.ansteorra.org
> Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] {TH}orkell {o,}lf_ss - another device attempt
> 
> On Thu, 26 Aug 2010, Joshua Brandl <norfildur at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Gyronny arrondi sable and argent, a mullet of eight points pierced counterchanged
> >
> > http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll227/aednial/Gyronnyarrondi.gif
> 
> Thanks for the larger image.  Seeing it, I think more strongly that it
> should be returned for excessive counterchanging and modern style (op
> art).  Though further research might affect that: just looking thru
> the Armorial, there are some gyronny counterchanged things out there.
> 
> Possibly clear of conflict.  An *almost* identical design was on the
> 7/09 LoAR:
> 
>      Reyna Thorne. Device. Gyronny arrondi sable and argent, a mullet
>      of eight points counterchanged.
> 
>          This device is returned for conflict with the badge of Anna af
>          Aarnimets{a:}, "Gyronny sable and argent, a mullet
>          counterchanged." There is a single CD for the difference
>          between a mullet of five points and a mullet of eight points,
>          but no difference between gyronny and gyronny arrondi. ...
> 
>          [stuff about a letter of permission to conflict that is not
>          applicable here]
> 
>          In addition, the submitted device conflicts with the device
>          for Endymion Meilichos, "Gyronny sable and argent, a mullet of
>          eight points between eight others in annulo all
>          counterchanged." There is a single CD for changing the number
>          of mullets. ...
> 
> (Francois's regulation time precedents has a precedent on Br{o,}nd_lfr
> the Stout, 03/03, A-Middle, giving a CD for arrondi for a quarterly
> field.  Given the above, I'm not sure whether this has been overruled,
> or whether there's a distinction between quarterly and gyronny.  But
> the above return post-dates this, so this doesn't help.)
> 
> But there's this from Elsbeth's precedents:
> 
>      [a compass star pierced] After much thought, we decided that
>      piercing is worth a CD when drawn large enough to be equivalent to
>      adding a tertiary charge, as it is done here; i.e. when it is
>      clearly visible and takes up much of the space available to
>      it. [Sebastian of Dragon's Mist, 12/99, A-An Tir]
> 
> A mullet of twelve points pierced got a CD for piercing (Buyan Delger,
> 3/07 LoAR).  However, piercing in other cases may not be a CD.  For
> example, Fekete Rosa (9/05) didn't get a CD for piercing cinquefoils,
> and I think I hit an earlier precedent that said that piercing
> cinquefoils was an artistic variation, and Elen Benet (1/05) even got
> the piercing taken out of the blazon.
> 
> So I think this is clear, but (unless there are precedents) I still
> think it should be returned for excessive counterchanging and op art.
> 
> Dankyn de Linccolne
> -- 
> Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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