[ANSTHRLD] Inheriting augmented arms or reserved charges?

[Jennifer Smith]

Good find, Alasdair.

I would offer the opinion that there is a lovely grey area between
"owns" and "can personally bear/use", for cases of heraldic property.

-Emma


On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Alasdair MacEogan <alasdair at bmhanson.net> wrote:
> Admin Handbook IV.G Heraldic Wills  states:
>
> "3. Upon the actual death of the owner, the designated heir may ask for a transfer of the item(s) willed to that designated heir. The submission is handled as any other transfer, except that instead of the letter extending the transfer and accepting the transfer, the submitter notes the existence of the heraldic will and the death of the prior owner.
>
> The new submitter must establish personal entitlement to use any restricted or reserved element contained in any armory transferred."
>
> I think the key bit here is that the person who inherits the arms must show "personal entitlement".  I would say that extends to  the augmentation and entitlement to the augmentation must be shown before it can be inherited.
>
> Alasdair
>
>
>>  -------Original Message-------
>>  From: Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com>
>>  To: heralds at ansteorra.org
>>  Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Inheriting augmented arms or reserved charges?
>>  Sent: 03 Aug '10 12:47
>>
>>  This would be an ideal question for SCA Heralds', if AOL hadn't been
>>  dilatory about fixing their breakage of the list *again*.
>>
>>  Galen of Bristol's son asked me last week whether he could use or
>>  display his father's augmented arms.
>>
>>  "Use" I have no problem with regardless of the charges or motifs.
>>  E.g., the heirs of a kingdom are expressly encouraged by Laurel to use
>>  the kingdom arms with a label, yet there's an explicit precent (from
>>  waay before the ban on new registrations of royal heirs' arms) that
>>  they can't register kingdom+label because the laurel wreath is a
>>  reserved charge, and no person can register that.
>>
>>  Galen's arms from July 2001 are: "Gules, a bend wavy between two
>>  double-bitted battle axes Or, and as an augmentation on the bend a
>>  mullet of five greater and five lesser points sable."  There's no
>>  reserved charge; anyone could register it regardless of augmentation
>>  (all other things being equal).  So I think his son could inherit
>>  those arms.  I suppose he could even keep the unaugmented version as a
>>  badge.
>>
>>
>>  Consider instead a hypothetical case.  Suppose that the arms clearly
>>  have something the recipient doesn't have: a coronet and the heir does
>>  not have baronial / viscomital / comital / ducal rank; a charged
>>  canton (reserved for augmentations) and the heir has no augmentation.
>>  Inheriting those?  RfS I.3 is "Inappropriate Claims. - No name or
>>  armory will be registered which claims for the submitter powers,
>>  status, or relationships that do not exist.".  The heir doesn't have
>>  the augmentation, or baronial rank or above, as appropriate.
>>
>>  On the other hand, the arms can be viewed as property.  We allow the
>>  legal heir under a real-world will to control them.
>>
>>  I've not done a precedents dive yet.  Anyone know if precedents exist?
>>
>>  Danel de Linccolne
>>  --
>>  Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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>>
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