[ANSTHRLD] Eldwin's Submission II

Kathleen O'Brien mari_1184 at att.net
Tue Jul 27 23:06:51 PDT 2010


You have to  be careful with stuff listed in the IGI.  The IGI contains 
records from many sources.  Not all of them are acceptable for 
documentation.  Some are fine.  But there are some things in the IGI 
that are outright fiction.  (I say this having worked with the card file 
version in DC and when I went back to the original source for the 
information, it did not match what was cited on the card file which was 
built from genealogy paperwork submitted by LDS members.)

In the case of the records cited by Edelweiss, they are all extracted 
from marriage records that do not seem to have been normalized.  That's 
the critical bits - that what we are seeing seems to be a faithful 
representation of what was in the original period record.

If you are planning to use the Ariel with English surnames that you 
found as the submitted documentation, you will need to drill into each 
record you are looking at using in order to find out where the 
information was obtained from.  Only when you know the original source, 
will you be able to evaluate whether those examples will stand up as 
documentation.

On the other hand, I'll bet we can find Lovechild later in England - 
maybe from Hitching & Hitching.  Which would resolve the temporal 
disparity issue.

Mari
(who actually included the Ariel cite in the Feb LoAR because the phrase 
ran through my head "oh, _someone_ is going to want these docs someday"; 
I just didn't realize it would be so soon)



On 7/27/2010 5:33 PM, Eldwin Nightowl wrote:
> Alasdair, your source http://www.familysearch.org was very helpful.  I look at Germany first, then looked at British Isles.  I found a few Ariel's in period who were female with British last names which is exactly what she wants.  Thanks a  bunch!
>
>
>   Eldwin Nightowl
>
> --- On Tue, 7/27/10, Alasdair MacEogan<alasdair at bmhanson.net>  wrote:
>
>
> From: Alasdair MacEogan<alasdair at bmhanson.net>
> Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Eldwin's Submission II
> To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."<heralds at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 11:40 AM
>
>
> Eldwin Nightowl<eldwin at loveshade.org>  wrote:
>    
>>    ARIEL
>>     
>>    Ariel appears in the Bible in Ezra 8:16, Isaiah 29:1-2, Isaiah 29:7, and in William Shakespeare's play The Tempest (for a list of Ariel's quotes, see http://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/views/plays/characters/charlines.php?CharID=Ariel&WorkID=tempest).
>>      
>
> A couple things left out of the above:
>
> 1) The name Ariel is a masculine name int he Old Testament
> 2) The Shakespeare citation is a name of a sprite in the play. 
>
> Neither really is documentation that the name was used in period by anyone.  BUT, you are in a little luck.  The name Ariel Benne Douw was registered via Atlantia in the 2010-02 LoAR. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2010/02/10-02lar.html#102
> ----
> "There was some question whether Ariel was registrable. Edelweiss cited the following examples from the IGI Parish Record extracts:
>
>          Ariel Ricker married Margaretha Wener, 1st July 1599, Bretten, Karlsruhe, Baden
>          Ariel Ricker married Christina Kerschner, 8th May 1604, Bretten, Karlsruhe, Baden
>          Ariel Rikher married Susana Gerner, 12th August 1630, Bretten, Karlsruhe, Baden
>
> These examples support Ariel as a German masculine name used in the late 16th and early 17th C.
>
> The combination of German and English is a step from period practice."
> -----
> Here would be a link to the documentation that was cited:  http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
>
> Put Ariel in as the first name and select Germany as the Region and Select Baden as the state.  Hopefully the submitter knows this is a masculine name.
>
>    
>>    Ariel of Glastonbury Tor was Calontir's first female knight and reigned three times as Queen  http://calontir.sca.org/herald/armorial/Pages/Lineage.htm
>>
>>      
>
> Sorry, but previous registration is not documentation or a guarantee it is registrable.
>
>
>    
>>    LOVECHILD
>>     
>>    John Lovechild is listed at http://www.archive.org/stream/englishsurnamest00bardiala#page/572
>>     yu
>>    The name was used by William Lovechild circa 1248 and Henry Lovechild circa 1327 according to page 235 of A Dictionary of English Surnames by Percy Hide Reaney, Richard Middlewood Wilson
>>      
>
> The 1327 spelling is Louechild, but the 1248 spelling citation should be sufficient for the surname in that spelling.  I will note you will get one step from period practice for the combination of German-English.  Also I would be concerned that you will get another one for the temporal disparity between a 1248 surname and a 1599 given name.  There is a 351 year difference there.
>    
>>
>>      
>
>
> Alasdair
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