[ANSTHRLD] Quarterly, a cross between four mullets ... pierced

[Tim McDaniel]

Please keep the blazon and emblazon of the original proposal.  I had
to dig back thru my e-mail to find it.

Quarterly sable and argent, a cross between four mullets of eight
points pierced counterchanged.
<http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll227/aednial/Quarterly.gif>

Also, please use a meaningful subject line or one consistent with
previous messages.  Please don't paste blazons with internal links
if your mailer keeps them as HTML -- I see the URLs and it's hard to
read the blazon.

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010, Will Manning <winther.der.truwe at gmail.com> wrote:
> does this not conflict?
>
>   - Sibyl O'Dowd <http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_name.cgi?p=Sibyl%20O%27Dowd>
>      - The following device associated with this name was registered in
>      October of 2007 (via
> Ansteorra)<http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_date.cgi?y1=2007&m1=October&y2=2007&m2=October&kX=checked>
>      :
>      *Quarterly <http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=quarterly>
> sable<http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=sable>and
>      argent <http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=argent>, a
> cross<http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=cross>between four lozenges
>      counterchanged <http://oanda.sca.org/glossary.cgi?p=counterchanged>.*

Sibyl O'Dowd, Quarterly sable and argent, a cross between four
lozenges counterchanged.

Certainly one CD for change of type of all of a group of charges on
the field, lozenge <-> mullet.  The only other change between the two
is the piercing.  Looking at Elsbeth's precedents, I see

     [a compass star pierced] After much thought, we decided that
     piercing is worth a CD when drawn large enough to be equivalent to
     adding a tertiary charge, as it is done here; i.e. when it is
     clearly visible and takes up much of the space available to
     it. [Sebastian of Dragon's Mist, 12/99, A-An Tir]

The emblazon shows that these are honkin' huge piercings.  However,
there's this from Shauna's precedents, which was later:

     Tatiana Laski Krakowska. Device. Per saltire argent and azure, six
     mullets argent.

         Conflict with ... and with Seitse: Vert, mulletty pierced
         argent. In each case there is a CD for changing the field, but
         none for number of charges, as six is not different from five
         or more. ...  Comparing against Seitse's mullets the following
         precedent applies:

             [mullets vs mullets pierced] Current research seems to
             indicate that mullets and mullets pierced (or spur rowels)
             were used interchangeably in period. As a consequence, no
             difference is currently granted between them. [May 1996,
             Ret-Atlantia, Agnes Daunce]

         So there is no CD for not piercing the mullets in this case.
         (April 2004 LoAR)

I don't have the emblazons to hand to see how large the piercing was
-- maybe they were tiny.  However, later still is this from 3/07:

     Buyan Delger. Device. Or, a sun gules within a Chinese dragon in
     annulo contourny sable.

         ... The submitted device does not conflict with the device of
         Etienne d'Argent, "Or, a mullet of twelve points pierced
         gules, a chief triangular sable". The piercing of the mullet
         is equivalent to adding a tertiary charge (an Or roundel) and
         thus there is a CD for removing the tertiary charge. There is
         a second CD for changing the type of the secondary charge from
         a chief to a Chinese dragon.

So it looks to me like the older precedent has continued or, at worst,
been restored.

It's an excellent catch.  Thank you.  If this were sent up, the issue
should be mentioned on the LoI, and ideally on a sheet of
documentation with the submission, so that commenters can research it
more and/or comment on it.

Dammit Delinquent
-- 
Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com