[ANSTHRLD] Conflict check: Gyronny of eight azure and pean, on a lozenge Or a sheaf of arrows argent

[Etienne de St. Amaranth]

Under either set of rules, does the placement of the charged lozenge imply a charged honor point (an augmentation) or a mark of pretense since a lozenge is a historical shape for arms?

Or, is that concern limited to charged escutcheons? Or does it even apply under the new rules?

I'm asking more for personal learning than intending to provide a reason to stop this particular submission.

Respectfully,
 
Etienne

On May 30, 2012, at 12:01 AM, Darnell Daniels <dmage121 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I meant to blazon those arrows azure, but it was late and I was trying to get this out before client went to bed. Lucky the picture showed the intent
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 5/29/12, Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:
> 
>> From: Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com>
>> Subject: Re: [ANSTHRLD] Conflict check: Gyronny of eight azure and pean, on a lozenge Or a sheaf of arrows argent
>> To: "Heralds List, Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <heralds at lists.ansteorra.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 11:22 PM
>> On Tue, 29 May 2012, Darnell Daniels
>> wrote:
>>> From: Darnell Daniels <dmage121 at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: [ANSTHRLD] Conflict check: Gyronny of eight
>> azure and pean,
>>>      on a lozenge Or a sheaf of
>> arrows argent
>>> 
>>> I checked this against the Armory but would like a
>> second set of
>>> eyes. You can see the image at the link below.
>>> 
>>> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3641500048790&set=a.1471610042896.59331.1612997228&type=3
>> 
>> Thank you for the image.
>> 
>> The default for gyronny is eight pizza slices.  The
>> arrows are not
>> argent, which you be an insta-boing for metal on metal, but
>> azure.
>> (Yeah, it's hard to learn the difference.  The only
>> thing that made it
>> easier for me was high school French, knowing that "argent"
>> was the
>> French word for 'silver'.)  You mentioned the gyronny's
>> tinctures in
>> the right order and it's otherwise fine.  The lozenge
>> could grow some
>> to fit the field, but I'd still blazon it
>> 
>> Gyronny azure and pean, on a lozenge Or a sheaf of arrows
>> azure.
>> 
>> Insta-boing for contrast.
>> 
>> = SENA
>> 
>> Under SENA, the incoming rules,
>> http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/sena.html#A3B1 ,
>> "Tinctures and their
>> Classifications", says "For the purposes of tincture,
>> ermined furs are
>> grouped in the same way as their background color."  So
>> it's classed
>> the same as "gyronny azure and sable".
>> 
>> http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/sena.html#A3B2 ,
>> "Definition of Good
>> Contrast", defines "good contrast" as a metal and a color
>> (and a
>> couple of cases involving a neutral tincture, but there are
>> no neutral
>> tinctures here).
>> 
>> http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/sena.html#A3B3d
>> 
>>     Elements Otherwise Divided: Elements not
>> already mentioned must
>>     have good contrast between their parts. 
>> These include fields or
>>     charges evenly divided into four parts other
>> than quarterly or per
>>     saltire, fields or charges evenly divided into
>> more than four
>>     parts of two different tinctures, and fields
>> or charges unevenly
>>     divided into multiple parts of two different
>> tinctures must have
>>     good contrast between adjacent parts of the
>> field.
>> 
>> = RfS
>> 
>> RfS VIII.2, http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/rfs.html#8.2 ,
>> same things, different order, not as clearly written
>> - "Ermined furs or field treatments on a background of one
>> of these
>> tinctures [sable etc.] are treated as colors for contrast"
>> - Good contrast
>> - "Elements evenly divided into multiple parts of two
>> different
>> tinctures must have good contrast between their
>> parts."  But there are
>> special cases above and below for two, three, per saltire,
>> and
>> quarterly, so you have to infer "if not otherwise covered".
>> 
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