"Baden,Doug" <baden@oclc.org>: RE: HERB - Timeline of Food

[Rhiannon Meaduewolf]

"Life is only therapy. Real expensive and no guarantee."  Garth Brooks
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: "Baden,Doug" <baden at oclc.org>
To: "'meaduewolf at juno.com'" <meaduewolf at juno.com>
Subject: RE: HERB - Timeline of Food
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:39:05 -0400
Message-ID:
<5BA8DD680ABCD011B5AB0000F840094E955808 at oa3-server.dev.oclc.org>

[Baden,Doug]  My reply
>  
> From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>
> To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG
> 
> > Hops were used in England for many years before 1525, they were just
> > illegal. This reference comes from a poem that tells that revolution
> and
> > hops came in the same year.  Andrew Boorde quotes it in his Doctor
> > Physike.
> 
> ?? My sources say that they were unpopular and considered unhealthy,
> but
> not illegal. Certainly, because they happened in the same year doesn't
> mean they are 
> 
[Baden,Doug]  Try looking at English Law as pertains to Guilds.  
It is specified in there.  Look into the Guilds and the details are
available.
As for being unhealthy, they were still saying that 200 years later.
Try
John P. Arnold's "Origin and history of beer and brewing
           from prehistoric times to the beginning of brewing science
and
           technology; a critical essay..."

A subject heading would be Brewing Industry, Law and Legislation

> > When ale was brewed in England, the popular stuff was made with a
> gruit
> > (herbs and spices) that the recipe for was a closely guarded secret.
> > The license was owned by the Catholic Church and dispensed by the
> > Guilds.  This represented a huge income for these institutions, so
> when
> > the Flemish showed up with hops, which worked better at
> preservation,
> > and made the beer even more palatable, the Bishops immediately made
> them
> > illegal to use in ale.  The fight was on, and hops are quite a bit
> like
> > kudzu, they grow prolifically just about anywhere.
> 
> I'd like to see a source for this. Certainly Bishops had very little
> power
> in England to declare things ILLEGAL, though they could certainly
> denounce them and declare them unhealthy.  It's certainly possible,
> but I
> would want to see the citation. (Whenever I hear statements that
> involve
> the Church in something considered 'bad', especially in English &
> German
> sources, I get suspicious. Much history has been twisted to fit
> anti-papist rhetoric in the past 400 years.)
> 
[Baden,Doug]  
I will beg to differ with you.  The Bishops had an enormous amount of 
power in the community and wielded it.  They could not directly make 
lay law, but they did cause this to be happen by applying pressure.  
Again look at the laws of the time, especially where it applies to
Guilds.  

> > Now, the use of hops in herbalism is mainly in their soporific
> > properties.  They are used in pillows to help a person sleep with
> nice
> > dreams.  Still are today.
> 
> Hops, at least by the looks of Culpepper, were also used as a
> diuretic...
> 
[Baden,Doug]  Neat!  Learn something new every day!

> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa (Shire of Eisental; HERMS Cyclonus) 
>          aka Aunt Bunny, mka Jennifer Heise	
> jenne at tulgey.browser.net
> 
> "And I think it's gonna be alright; Yeah, the worst is over now--
> The mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball."
> 
> 
Doug Baden    My opinions are my own. 
When I see "And it is obvious that" I know that
I have many hours of work to see the obvious...

--------- End forwarded message ----------

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