HERB - honey as medicinal -> Abstracts [long]

[John+Lynette]

Galen,
thanks again for your efforts.  It seems I thanked the wrong person in my
last msg. I copied the wrong name in my response.

It also seem we have been talking apples and oranges.  (I had a sense that
there was some missing information between us in this discussion.)  Your
argument seems to be that honey has antibacterial properties beyond it's
concentration of sugars.  Your concern seems to be that heat will destroy
these components.   That seems to be true.  I wonder how high a heat and for
how long it take to do that.  The extracts talked about sterilization I
talked about pasteurization a big difference in the temperature and length
of time it is applied.  Yes. I know pasteurization does not kill the spores.
That was actually floating around in my head as we talked.  I think if the
words had actually been spoken a light would have come on for me sooner.  It
would have finally occurred to me no only was my argument unsound but It
would have finally dawned on me why we recommend no honey period  for
children under 5 years.
Yea, at first I thought 5 was pretty old.  But as you know the danger is
greatest to infants and no two children are alike so saying to cut off at 12
months is dangerous.  When a premature child at say 14 mo may not be as
matures as a normal 12 mo. old.
The greatest danger is to infants but we cut all child under age 5 yr off to
be safe pasturized or not.
Back to pasteurization though.  I felt that pasteurization was adequate as,
the spore would not germinate in honey.
I Two things here  will pasteurization damage the honey (not sterilization)?
and the botulism is still a concern.
RE:  "the gamma irradiation
> article seems to suggest that it is at least a theoretical concern)."
>
> Galen
>
This suggest more than a theoretical concern to ME.  I still remain cautious
with occult wounds and those that are poorly oxygenated.   Many of the
studies did not specify uncooked or unheated honey.  One did specifically
look at the aspect where your concern seems to lie, and compared sugar to
raw honey (looking for specific differences between the two).  I am curious
as to how pasteurized and raw hone compare.   None of these abstracts gave
the original hypothesis or stats.  Which makes it impossible to draw any
real conclusions,  from the abstract alone. Uuntil I see more complete
evidence I can considere this  only ancedotal.  I am not doubting you.
These studies may be just fine.  The problem is they are not presented here
with any proof to support what is being said.  The proof probably exist but
it is in the study report not the abstract.
I may look into these studies as a later date if it proves to be of
importance to me, then.  Right now time is an issue.  (Just give be 60 or 70
hours in a day) In the past those of us who occasionally used honey
believed that the primary benefit was the high osmolarity of  sugar that was
key to preventing infection in a wound.  We used the honey to nourish wounds
directly when they were not well nourished otherwise.  We also apply oxygen
directly to wounds where poor oxygenation is a problem.
On the other hand you seemed to be looking at the antibacterial properties
only.  Sorry, for the confusion.
I still think that the honey is important in nourishing.  I personally have
avoided using it on wounds that are already infected, but have noticed that
theses wound don't seem to infect when the honey is used.  (Remember honey
is not bacterialcidal but only bacterialstatic. ie inhibits growth.  But
that is a very valueable component what ever the reason for it.)  I still
have a lot of questions that would take scientific investigatin to answer.
But this has me intrigued now . So, I problbly will continue to look at it.
Thanks
And Once again Thanks for all your hard work. Lynette

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