NR - Principality (there I said it) dssweet at
Thu Apr 16 18:05:53 PDT 1998

Britta the Red wrote:

>Somebody tell me, how many principalities never go on to be kingdoms; 
>and what the average time period for principalities to wait before 
>they become kingdoms. 
>HL Estril is often caught with a long memory, or is it just that she 
>knows how to research? :)

     Research, Britta, research. Then it becomes a memory.  :)

     All this information comes from Mistress Jessa d'Avondale's 
articles "Etcetera" that can be found at:
(that's an incomplete url, but I think the last bit is kingdoms.html).
     To begin with the first three kingdoms were never principalities 
(West, East, Middle). Every kingdom since then has existed as a 
principality. So that leaves 12 kingdoms that grew from principalities. 
And, of course, there are some principalities that have been around 
forever, it seems. Only one principality that I know of has folded or 
disappeared, and that's the CP of the Sun of Atenveldt. When Artemisia 
went Kingdom, the Sun was the remaining area of Atenveldt and so it went 
inactive? folded? ceased to exist? Other than that, I don't have any 
further info on it or any other principality that may have folded.

     First I will list the principalities that have become kingdoms, 
then I'll list the current principalities and how long they've been 

     Atenveldt: P IV, K V                 1 year as P
     Meridies:  P XI, K XII               1 year as P
     Caid:      P IX, K XIII              4 years as P
     Ansteorra: P XII, K XIV              2 years as P
     Atlantia:  P XI, K XIV               3 years as P
     An Tir:    P VIII, K XVI             8 years as P
     Calontir:  P XVI, K XVIII            2 years as P
     Trimaris:  r XIV, P XVI, K XX        4 years as P (6 as region)
     Outlands:  P XII, K XXI              9 years as P
     Drachenwald: P XV, K XXVIII         13 years as P
     Artemisia:   P XXIII, K XXXII        9 years as P
     AEthelmearc: P XXIV, K XXXII         8 years as P

     CP is Crown Principality; FP is Full Principality; r is region. 
Because it's so close to the roll-over of the sca year I'm going to 
figure these as AS XXXIII:

     Mists:        P XIV                   19 years
     Cynagua:      P XIV                   19 years
     Oertha:      CP XVII, FP XIX          16 years, 14 
     Lochac:      CP XVII, FP XXII         16 years, 11
     Ealdormere:  CP XXIII, FP XXIV        10 years,  9 
     Northshield: CP XXVII, FP XXX          6 years,  3
     Summits:     r XIX, CP XXVIII, FP XXX 14 years,  5 years, 3 years
     Avacal:      CP XXVI, FP ?(XXXII?)     7 years,  ? years

     By looking over the time lengths involved, the reader will notice 
that the four newest kingdoms together have taken a total of 39 years as 
P's (which is longer than the sca has been around). The last 
principality to go kingdom in less than 4 years is Calontir and I 
understand that was a very bitter separation (and that happened 14 years 
ago). I don't think we (the northern region) have those bitter feelings. 

     Notice also that the last six principalities above all came into 
existence as a Crown P first, and then becoming a Full P 1-5 years 
later. However, this trend was unable to be established for any kingdom 
using the information in the "Etcetera" files. (IMHO, looks possible for 
Artemisia and AEthelmearc.)

     There is a distinct change in how long a principality lasts before 
changing into a kingdom. Some of this change could and should probably 
be attributed to changes in how the Board of Directors works now as 
compared to back in the 1980s or 1970s or 1960s. But the rest of the 
change should probably be attributed to a change in the group mindset of 
the sca populace as a whole. We've needed principalities to be something 
different from a quick springboard to kingdom status. The question is 
which of these is the greater factor in principalities becoming 

     So while the memories of those good people who lived and 
experienced the "Principality" of Ansteorra are valuable and should be 
recorded for history's sake, I don't think they have much bearing on how 
a principality works today, because the circumstances seem to be rather 
different now (YMMV).

     Oh, and I'd like to point out that Ansteorra is as old as the 
Principalities of Mists and Cynagua (though there may be a few months 


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