NR - Principality (there I said it)

E.Preston III & Shelly K. Walker wf3 at
Thu Apr 16 21:34:54 PDT 1998

HL Estrill, you as always do an extensive research! Thank you, I'm 
saving your information on principalities. In case anyone missed it...
Britta the Red

HL Estrill expounded:

>      All this information comes from Mistress Jessa d'Avondale's
> articles "Etcetera" that can be found at:
> (that's an incomplete url, but I think the last bit is kingdoms.html).
>      To begin with the first three kingdoms were never principalities
> (West, East, Middle). Every kingdom since then has existed as a
> principality. So that leaves 12 kingdoms that grew from principalities.
> And, of course, there are some principalities that have been around
> forever, it seems. Only one principality that I know of has folded or
> disappeared, and that's the CP of the Sun of Atenveldt. When Artemisia
> went Kingdom, the Sun was the remaining area of Atenveldt and so it went
> inactive? folded? ceased to exist? Other than that, I don't have any
> further info on it or any other principality that may have folded.
>      First I will list the principalities that have become kingdoms,
> then I'll list the current principalities and how long they've been
> around.
>      Atenveldt: P IV, K V                 1 year as P
>      Meridies:  P XI, K XII               1 year as P
>      Caid:      P IX, K XIII              4 years as P
>      Ansteorra: P XII, K XIV              2 years as P
>      Atlantia:  P XI, K XIV               3 years as P
>      An Tir:    P VIII, K XVI             8 years as P
>      Calontir:  P XVI, K XVIII            2 years as P
>      Trimaris:  r XIV, P XVI, K XX        4 years as P (6 as region)
>      Outlands:  P XII, K XXI              9 years as P
>      Drachenwald: P XV, K XXVIII         13 years as P
>      Artemisia:   P XXIII, K XXXII        9 years as P
>      AEthelmearc: P XXIV, K XXXII         8 years as P
>      CP is Crown Principality; FP is Full Principality; r is region.
> Because it's so close to the roll-over of the sca year I'm going to
> figure these as AS XXXIII:
>      Mists:        P XIV                   19 years
>      Cynagua:      P XIV                   19 years
>      Oertha:      CP XVII, FP XIX          16 years, 14
>      Lochac:      CP XVII, FP XXII         16 years, 11
>      Ealdormere:  CP XXIII, FP XXIV        10 years,  9
>      Northshield: CP XXVII, FP XXX          6 years,  3
>      Summits:     r XIX, CP XXVIII, FP XXX 14 years,  5 years, 3 years
>      Avacal:      CP XXVI, FP ?(XXXII?)     7 years,  ? years
>      By looking over the time lengths involved, the reader will notice
> that the four newest kingdoms together have taken a total of 39 years as
> P's (which is longer than the sca has been around). The last
> principality to go kingdom in less than 4 years is Calontir and I
> understand that was a very bitter separation (and that happened 14 years
> ago). I don't think we (the northern region) have those bitter feelings.
>      Notice also that the last six principalities above all came into
> existence as a Crown P first, and then becoming a Full P 1-5 years
> later. However, this trend was unable to be established for any kingdom
> using the information in the "Etcetera" files. (IMHO, looks possible for
> Artemisia and AEthelmearc.)
>      There is a distinct change in how long a principality lasts before
> changing into a kingdom. Some of this change could and should probably
> be attributed to changes in how the Board of Directors works now as
> compared to back in the 1980s or 1970s or 1960s. But the rest of the
> change should probably be attributed to a change in the group mindset of
> the sca populace as a whole. We've needed principalities to be something
> different from a quick springboard to kingdom status. The question is
> which of these is the greater factor in principalities becoming
> kingdoms.
>      So while the memories of those good people who lived and
> experienced the "Principality" of Ansteorra are valuable and should be
> recorded for history's sake, I don't think they have much bearing on how
> a principality works today, because the circumstances seem to be rather
> different now (YMMV).
>      Oh, and I'd like to point out that Ansteorra is as old as the
> Principalities of Mists and Cynagua (though there may be a few months
> difference).
>      Estrill
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