[Northern] Northern Regional Warlord

shagandmj shagandmj at home.com
Fri May 11 14:30:59 PDT 2001

ya, just like tag owes margaret an apology


----- Original Message -----
From: "Maleah" <maleah at mmcable.com>
To: "Northern" <northern at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Northern] Northern Regional Warlord

> The following comments left in for reference.
> Walter Robin said:
> > > >By all accounts NR Warlord was a great success.  Each of the region's
> > >groups contributed to the >event to make it a truly regional endeavor.
> > >
> > ><SNIP>
> > >
> > > >The event was also a grand financial success, and it is our pleasure
> > >offer each of the
> > > >groups a dividend of the proceeds.  The amount comes to about $80
> (each)...
> > >
> > > >If your group does not need the money, we can contribute your share
> any
> > >worthy project you
> > > >desire, for example:
> > >
> > > >regional tabards  ( remember:  sca funds==sca property )
> Then Tadhg said:
> > >As Nordsteorra Herald, I will have to ask what design you were
> for
> > >the tabard. At present, the Northern region does NOT have a registered
> > >badge...or arms...or name (aside from that of my office.)
> > >
> > >Although Ld. Owain offered a design at NRW, that personal badge design
> was
> > >failed by the College of Heralds in January. It is in direct conflict
> with
> > >registered arms, and cannot be used. In fact, the design, in and of
> itself,
> > >cannot be registered--it violates heraldic rules.
> > >
> > >Any registrations of this type need to go through my office...and need
> be
> > >a design supported by a concensus of the North.
> Burke,
>     You make several points in your letter which I must address.
>  You stated in reference to the regional tabards with the gryphon emblem:
> >If the submission was rejected, perhaps you could make sure
> > that the local herald informs the submitter of that fact, which is part
> > your responsibilities.
> I do believe that Sigen reads this list on a regular basis. Would his
> missive not fulfill that duty? She has now been informed by a warranted
> representative of the college of heralds that the badge she was trying to
> register is in conflict.
> You also stated:
> >As to the design being rejected by the college,  I could not find any
> mention of it in any
> >of the ILoI, ICC, Loi, or Loc that Francois la Flamme has so kindly made
> available.
> I spoke to Borek, Star Principal Herald, and was informed by him that the
> badge had been rejected at the January meeting. I do not believe it has
> out in print yet as the office within the college that is responsible for
> this is in flux. It does not change the fact that the badge failed.
> You stated:
> >You point out that the emblem is in conflict with a set of official arms
> else where in the Society and >that maybe true (although I could not find
> the exact conflict in the O and A).  That only means that it >can't be
> registered as an official device unless it is changed or the conflicting
> person gives their >approval for the conflict.
> I do believe the conflict is with a Mistress of the Kingdom of the West.
> sure if you ask Tadhg he can get you the information.
> You also stated:
> >Actually Tadha this IS outside of your responsibility as Northern
> > Herald. Enforcement is not part of your job description.
> While enforcement is not technically a part of his job, it IS a part of
> job to inform people when they are flying heraldry that has been rejected
> the college of heralds for whatever reason.
> You stated:
> >If people want to make tabards that have the Gryphon Star emblem
> > on them, or any other emblem for that matter, that is their
> > choice.
> Yes, they could do this, but considering the conflict and that chivalry
> courtesy are supposed to be the backbone of the game we play, would in
> be in VERY poor taste.
> You state also:
> > This particular symbol has been around for over 5 years and is commonly
> associated with northern >fighters.
> The fact that "we've been doing it for years" is a very poor excuse to
> continue doing so with the discourtesy implied to the lady with whom it is
> in conflict and the fact that it is  incorrect heraldic design. The fact
> that it has been used by a small number in the past does not change the
> that it is in conflict and as such should not be flown.
> You commented:
> >As to your last comment that a design needs to be supported by a
> of the North, I believe >that is what Lord Owen and others are trying to
> Their attempts to rally a Northern Army with
> >common livery is just that, consensus building.  I don't see anyone else
> trying to do anything.  If you >don't support this goal that is your
> this game is big enough for everyone, but it does not give >you the right
> try and destroy what others are trying to build.
> Nor does it give you the right to paint him with the same brush you accuse
> him of using. Unless you can say for a FACT that his post was done with
> malicious intent then your accusation is just that an accusation. Practice
> what you preach Sir Burke, you owe Tadhg an apology.
> You signed your missive:
> > (member of the Ansteorran College of Heralds since 1979)
> Which with $1.50 will buy you a cup of coffee.:)
> I am all for a flag that we can rally to with pride but it should be one
> brought before and approved by a MAJORITY of the populace, not something
> that has already been shown to be in conflict and bad heraldry to boot. In
> the meantime, what is wrong with the Ansteorran civil ensign with the
> reverse being the ensign of your Barony, shire, canton, etc.? Should there
> not be pride in being Ansteorran??? For at this point that is exactly what
> we are.
> Let's all work together without the finger pointing and assumption of ill
> will that has been happening all too often of late.
> My two cents worth and then some,
> Maleah
> Baroness of Namron (which with $1.50 will buy me a cup of coffee)
> .
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