[Northkeep] [Fwd: [Namron] Bowing out]

Dennis England sirbalvin at earthlink.net
Thu May 23 20:41:19 PDT 2002

Good bye and take care.

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Suarez Family" <family at suarez-turner.com>
To: <northkeep at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: RE: [Northkeep] [Fwd: [Namron] Bowing out]

> This is a rant, I'll warn you ahead of time, and it's been a long time
> coming....
>  I didn't want to respond to this. I didn't. I tried to just settle,
> create a small place for myself, and go on, but I CAN'T. I have to say
> something, It's eating me up inside. I brought this up once before and I
> tried very hard to be politically correct, but maybe that was the wrong
> attitude to take.
>  I have fringe played in Northkeep for about 3 years. For a very long
> time we flat could not afford even one membership. We can now, and I
> still delay turning the filled out paperwork in. Why? I still do not
> feel welcome here. Right at first, some folks seemed interested in us
> (well, interested in Gareth and how well he could play and sing anyway).
> Then when I got pregnant and too sick to participate, so we didn't. Then
> we started trying again. So we are new again, and yet we are not. I can
> put a great many names with faces and I am willing to bet that almost
> none of those people have a CLUE who I am. I am not a people person.
> Terrified of people. It makes me a wreck to walk up and talk to someone
> I don't know or who doesn't know me. I wanted to be involved even though
> it scared me. I wasn't sure what I had to offer the group, maybe nothing
> at all, but I wanted to find out and learn or explore what I could.
> Susan (who is a dear friend of mine and will probably disown men now,
> I'm sorry Susan!) told me that since I quilt I could join up with the
> folks who do needlework, etc. Nope. I don't even remember who I
> approached now, it's been a good year ago, but whoever it was told me
> that "quilting was NOT a part of needleworking, so I needed to look
> elsewhere". Geez, that hurt. I backed off of playing even more after
> that and instead researched what was "quilting" in Period on my own. I
> learned a lot. I am very interested in herbs and herbalism. Susan tried
> to convince me to start an Herbalist Guild. After the quilting
> rejection, are you kidding??? I don't feel like being kicked again. My
> husband and I love to cook. It took me going through (I swear) FIVE
> people to get the information on just how to join the Cooking Guild
> list. I felt very much like nobody wanted me to participate and they
> were all just giving me the run around. I was actually surprised when I
> finally got on it. When we were discussing a menu at one point and what
> to do for breakfast that could be cooked ahead of time or didn't need
> cooking, I offered my advise based on the fact that I run a Hospitality
> Room every year where I have to feed 50 or more people breakfast and
> lunch daily for three days straight at a convention where I have no
> cooking supplies. No one even said thank you, those are good ideas. Wow,
> that hurt too.
>  We'd participate at least to some extent in a Bardic Circle or Guild,
> I'd even offer my home for it, but after feeling like I don't belong I'm
> not going to invite people to my house so I can feel like I don't belong
> there too! At least half of the time when I post to the Northkeep list,
> no one acknowledges it. I was surprised when Dairmaid responded with the
> very helpful links and information when I asked about Guilds and
> Households. Thank you, Dairmaid.
>  Don't get me wrong, I have met some people that were nice, and that I
> enjoyed being with, once someone else introduced us. I think too many
> people get so involved with playing or whatever they are doing or their
> clique, that they forget what it feels like to feel new, and how long it
> can take for that feeling to wear off. It's NOT just that first event,
> or that second meeting. Until you find your "niche", you feel like an
> outsider.
>  Recently Dairmaid ranted about people not showing up at classes. Well,
> it burned my butt! (No offense to you personally, Dairmaid!) It's the
> whole attitude of it. I have 4 kids. If I am going to something that
> doesn't also have something for small children to do, then I need a
> sitter. I can't just call someone at the drop of a hat, and both or my
> parents are dead. It takes some doing for us to arrange a sitter and I
> better have a couple of weeks notice AT LEAST. Either that or we have to
> leave them with Stonie, our oldest. Stonie is nearly 18, and such a
> sweet young man and I hate to infringe upon his time without notice
> also. In fact, I tried VERY hard to get him involved with the group. He
> said that no one had ever done anything at all to make him feel welcomed
> or tried to encourage him to do anything, so he figured that he wasn't
> welcome. How sad! Not until Shirley thought he would enjoy Dairmaid's
> shoe class had he ever attended anything willingly that he enjoyed. He
> LOVED it and plans to return. Thank you to everyone who made him feel
> welcome there. Nonetheless, as I was saying, I can't go to everything
> I'd like on short notice without a 5 year old and a 2 year old tagging
> along. Most classes, etc don't work so well that way.
>  The Middle Eastern Drum and Dance Circles are the ONE thing that I have
> felt truly welcome at. Susan encouraged us to go and Shirley certainly
> made us feel welcome. Shirley goes out of her way to arrange a home for
> that every month (twice a month lately) and I want to publicly thank her
> now. Great job, Shirley, thank you!
>  The most recent incident that nearly made we walk away from Northkeep
> happened just a few weeks ago. I have been helping Susan with flyers and
> such in her role as Hospitaller for awile now. I was happy to help a
> friend. She insisted that I be a Deputy. Okay by me, I guess. I wasn't
> even sure what that *meant*. So a couple of weeks ago I was suddenly
> added to the officer's list. I wasn't sure why I was added and no one
> asked me if I wanted to be, but I figured that Susan wanted my take on
> something being discussed and so had arranged it. I posted and was
> publicly welcomed there. For about a week. Then after a few days of
> quiet Dairmaid posted that if you were not an Officer or a Deputy you
> were not allowed to post. It made me SO embarrassed and hurt! I am sure
> that he wasn't directing the statement to me (if he had been, he
> probably would have said, "Hey Sioned, please, don't post anymore"
> because he doesn't beat around the bush). Maybe he even posts that every
> month or something as a reminder. I don't know. It's apparently a rule
> and I somehow caused some confusion since my membership still hasn't
> been turned in. But the situation hurt. Here I was trying to give of
> myself and my time and I was again rebuffed. So I unsubbed. Why be where
> I am not wanted, right? I don't have the time for that.
>  I have considered starting a Guild of some sort (Middle Eastern maybe?)
> or even a Household hoping to CREATE a niche where I felt welcome and at
> home here in Northkeep. Today on my Quilting list a discussion of the
> SCA came up and another woman who is in our area mentioned that she felt
> very unwelcome in EITHER Tulsa or OKC area. So maybe it's not me being
> painfully shy. Maybe it's not a series of coincidences. Maybe we ALL
> need to think about how we speak to people we don't know, new folks, or
> questioning folks or even folks we have seen around and just never met.
> You never know when you may have a person, or a family, who's got a lot
> to offer and share, and would work their butts off for the group, but
> are hiding in the shadows because people have turned them away time and
> time again.
>   So far, what I have experienced is Northkeep isn't my "community" like
> Dairmaid suggested. It's a bunch of cliques and if you can't gain
> entrance to one somehow, then don't play. That sounds pretty harsh.
> Well, I FEEL pretty wounded by my experiences here and don't blame
> anyone for leaving. If anything I feel that I personally owe those folks
> that left and posted to Namron an apology because I never saw them and
> tried to make them feel welcome, even if just from the perspective of
> knowing how new feels, and how bad it can feel.
>  I am sorry if this makes anyone mad at me. Maybe this will cause people
> to like me even less and I will also be forced to leave. But I am not
> sorry that I finally spoke up. Northkeep has a terrible reputation
> outside of Northkeep as being cliquish and clannish and inhospitable and
> I have certainly seen why.
> Sadly,
> Sioned
> > Ok people.  This guy posted this to the Namron list.  I have
> > replied to him and found out a bit about what is going on and
> > most of it happened quite some time ago.  However I just want
> > you all to know that even small things can sometimes make a
> > lasting impression.  So help me out and make sure that we
> > welcome all the new folks that we see.  If you aren't a
> > people person, and I understand that, let one of us that is
> > know so that we can say hello to the new person.  I don't
> > notice them all the time. Our Barony is growing and that is
> > wonderfull.  However one person can make us sound really bad
> > to lots of other people.  Let's continue to welcome in the
> > newcomers and show them what a good time that they can have
> > with us. Ainar
> > >
> > > From: "G. Weible" <gweible at klient.com>
> > > Date: 2002/05/23 Thu PM 04:20:43 EDT
> > > To: <namron at ansteorra.org>
> > > Subject: [Namron] Bowing out
> > >
> > > Greetings,
> > >
> > > Just writing a quick note to let y'all know that Michelle and I are
> > > stepping out of the SCA.  We can't afford it, we have
> > nothing in the
> > > way of camping equipment, and we have nothing for garb
> > (Kassia, we'll
> > > send your dress with Maeve when we see her next).  It's
> > unfortunate,
> > > but there is nothing that can be helped, I am still unemployed and
> > > it's getting harder and harder to make ends meet.  With it looking
> > > like everyone liking the site at lake murray better, it is just too
> > > far for us to afford to go.  And since northkeep has no desire for
> > > welcoming new people, even those who live in their barony, we are
> > > leaving the game.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > >
> > > Greg and Michelle, formerly Seth and Aiyana of Namron.
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