[Ravensfort] Perspectives, Part Two

Peer2 Peer2 at email.msn.com
Wed Jul 18 08:05:56 PDT 2001


Kief wrote :

>Heilsa Cedric and all those good and true Ansteorrans that read these
words...

>You did post the two missives found below:
(missives omitted)

>Exactly who's integrity are you calling to into question here?
>There were many questions to be answered before the polling. Exactly which
>one's went unanswered? Please be specific. Generalities are not conducive
to
>precise point and counter-point in debates.

I will send this answer to you privately because of the circumstances and
the people involved. Perhaps you will be able to point out something I have
missed.

****************************

>Was it in those exact words "...Kingdom and my people..."? Or was it a
>pledge to support the successful candidates no matter who they were? This
is
>an important point.

I will quote to the best of my memory what Her Highness Larissa asked of me
during our interview after the Q&A at the polling meeting.

She said - "No matter who is chosen and who isn't, we ask you to continue to
support your people."

I said - "Of course I will."

As far as I'm concerned, I made a promise with that statement.

****************************

>Cedric, is it your car or does it belong to someone else? I understood in
the past that it was your grandfather's car.

The car is in my grandfather's name for insurance purposes. In all respects,
it is mine to do with what I will (except wreck it or sell it, or course.)

****************************

>Money *is* a very important issue when you are talking about a possibly
>years long commitment to a duty and responsibility such as being Baron or
>Baroness. I cannot tell you how many thousands of dollars I spent while I
>sat as Landed Baron here in Raven's Fort for 5 years.

I am well aware of the cost. That point was the first one considered and was
repeatedly considered throughout the process. But the issue was well in
hand. Very well in hand. More than that I will say privately because my and
Katrine's financial state is hardly a matter for public consumption.

****************************

>Exactly which "more than 50 people"? I've been talking to quite a few in
>the past several days and have not had the same impression that you say you
>have received. Are we talking about the same people here? Or what?

I suppose we are not talking to the same people, or are hearing different
things. Plus, you must remember that you and Niklas are close, while he and
I have not often socialized. People are thus more likely to give different
views to each of us.

But to be fair, I will say that all have had glowing reports about his work
as local and Regional treasurer, and none have disputed his business and
administrative skills.

****************************

>And I have been paying close attention. To things like the numbers of
>people that were at the polling meeting and those that may well have sent
>their letters/poll to Their Highnesses now Majesties. Exactly how many of
>those folks that you talked to actually expressed their opinion in the
>polling process? It certainly could not have been all of them.

Not all, but many. A few voted by proxy and a slightly large number did not
vote for various reasons. Yes, that does mean that some did not express
their views at the poll and later complained, but I do not think that their
lack of participation means they do not have the right to their opinions.

On this subject (but slightly off topic), I have no idea how many people
were at the polling meeting, but I recall that it was announced and put up
on the big while board that there were 41 votes cast that night. I saw a few
people arrive late and saw a few leave before the voting. There was some
confusion there between the nomination poll and the actual final poll, but
such things tend to happen when that many people are packed into a room. I
suspect the effect of that confusion was minor.

****************************

((About the bulk of the populace not supporting the decision - C.))
>Again I beg to disagree, but only to a certain degree. I think that the
>numbers were fairly evenly split as to the first choice on the polling.
>Given that a perfect 4-way tie would have *each* set of candidates with an
>apparent 75% liability...certainly not a majority poll. But, consider the
>*second* choice spot on the polling slips. How many of the populace that
>expressed their opinion in the poll wrote in Niklas and Kezia as their
>*second* choice if their primary choice was not the clear majority winner?
>Friends and neighbors...there was no clear *primary* choice winner. If
there
>had been a clear majority choice Their Highnesses would have announced the
>successful candidates the evening of the polling. I do believe that Their
>Highness stated so during the meeting. Their Highnesses then *had* to
revert
>to the *secondary* choice poll.

>This opinion, of course, is mine and mine alone.

I would venture to make an uneducated guess that the announcement was
delayed so that all the proxies would have time to arrive and to give the
future Crown time to consider their choices. No one disputes that the poll
did not produce a clear majority winner. I personally don't think anyone
expected it to. That was never the issue, at least not so far as I have
seen.

****************************

((Regarding address changes- C.))
>If this is true then I am sorry to see them go. However, it is their free
>choice to literally "put their money where their mouth is" and vote with
>their feet. Still, I am looking forward to the next several zip sort
>membership rosters from the Office of the Registry to see if the numbers of
>defecting paid members is as great as you make it out to be.

>If there are first time membership buyers out there that are actually
buying
>memberships in *protest* of the Crown's choice then that's okay as
well...at
>least the Kingdom of Ansteorra and the surrounding groups will benefit from
>the Crown's choice.

>However, I would urge you all to take a step back and wait a bit. I do
>believe that Niklas and Kezia will be excellent Nobles here in Raven's
Fort.
>Why not wait and see? You all can split after you are proven right...but
can
>certainly stay and grow with the Barony if your expectations are not as
dire
>as you now believe.

I truly hope I'm wrong here. I do hope that the people who have stated they
will move their memberships will reconsider, or at least wait and see. Or
just plain chicken out. But I wouldn't want to wager on it. Emotions are a
difficult thing to predict.

****************************

((Regarding the people who would stop financially supporting the Barony -
C.))
>I would certainly like to know who these folks are...just for my own
>amusement...that way I can check and see if they attend any future Raven's
>Fort events. Then I can point and laugh...after all gate fees and feast
fees
>*are* money spent on Raven's Fort. Otherwise their threats are hollow ones.

You already know one because he posted his intentions to this list. And
boycotting local events was also included in his statement.

****************************

>Under your definition of "substantive opposition" *all* of the candidates
>would have been disallowed... That pesky 75% possible poll *against* each
of
>the couples given a 4-way tie... As well, I have not seen any of their
>names, nor have they expressed their sentiments in a public forum such as
>this list.

>(Note: Cedric and I did talk about some of the folks that have expressed
>their feelings with action...but I will not name them here. I will let them
>or him make their names public if they so will it.)

I guess I wasn't clear. Not surprising after the way I mangaed to butcher my
posts (sigh). My definition of "substantive opposition" refers to reactions
after the announcement, not during the poll.

****************************

>Hmmmm...to quote Milton, "...'Tis better to Rule in Hell than Serve in
>Heaven...".

>However, there is a slight problem in the formation of a new group from an
>existing group's zip codes/boundries... You have to have permission of the
>original group to aquire those areas. That permission would have to come
>from the current Baron and Baroness...as well as the current Seneschal. I
>think that you all can see the problem inherent in this course of action.

I prefer "hope for the best, plan for the worst."

Oh yes, the difficulties have been well noted. And I am told that the matter
is still being examined.

****************************

>True...the past Cantons of Raven's Fort had as many as 15 to 20 paid
>members at various points in their existence. You do have at least that
many
>paid members don't you?

>Another question or two: Who exactly are going to be the officers of your
>new group? Have they taken the appropriate classes from the Seneschal, the
>Treasurer, the Herald, the Marshalate (both Heavy and/or Rapier), et
>cetera...? Are they all paid members of the SCA Inc.? How many of your
folks
>have held office recently?

****************************

>I have heard, second and third hand admittedly, that quite a few of your
>friends and house members don't want the responsibility of office nor the
>duty entailed in long term service to a group. How does those sentiments
>mesh with your cadre's desires to form a new SCA chapter?

I see the rumor mill is up to it's typical standards. Of the Pharusi who are
full or associated members, there are currently three officers (only one is
local, me.), one pro-tem guildmaster, one who recently stepped down from a
local office, and two with applications currently under consideration. Two
others are considering either deputy or full officer positions and have not
yet applied.

As for how they mesh with the "cadre's" desires, they don't. A few have
declared one way or another, but most are carrying on with their usual
business. And for the record, a majority are not involved in any way with
the Shire project.

****************************

>And I call on all members and non-members in Montgomery, Liberty, San
>Jacinto, and Polk counties to remain true to the Barony that we all have
>worked so hard to build. To contact the current Baron and Baroness as well
>as the incoming Baron and Baroness to solve any problems that you have. As
>well, if you have questions about any of the proceedings or procedures
>contact the Regional Seneschal, or even Their Majesties if Mistress
>Clarissa's answers are not sufficient.

Ditto. One does not know if one does not ask. And keep asking.

****************************

>In Love, Respect, and Service to Barony and Kingdom...

>Wæs Þu Hæl in TroÞ and FriÞ...!
>Kief
>"Better the Hammer than the nail..."


-- Ld. Cedric Aeschere Einarsson
-- (Insert Favorite Expletive Here)





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