[Ravensfort] Atta girl Jacinth! Wow..um, more garb stuff

[jacinth]

rachel luce <rachel_luce1975 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>    God I love it when you post. You've always got somthting good to say. Now allow me to disagree with on certain points. :D  

I am always happy to amuse... somehow I thought maybe you would be mad
at me, but I was not criticizing your opinion.

I don't think we disagree, really...  just maybe have slightly different
viewpoints on the same things.  :)

>    First let me say that what I was objecting to  in my first post was not the attempt to be more historically accurate or to conduct research that would be used in the quest for aunthenticity but the statement by the author that garb would need to be "approved"  to be used. 

That was the way I took it....   although I did think that the article was
taken "out of context"...  Lorraine rightly did point out that it had been been
published in support of a high-persona event.  I also pointed out that the
author was from a different kingdom.  Yes, in our Kingdom we don't go as
far to make these judgements, but then we don't know much more than
that about her target audience.  I was not offended at all by your remarks.
If someone in our kingdom had made such a statement to me, I probably
would have laughed. ^_^

>The only excaptions that I can think of are when  that person has not made a good faith  effort to have a non-mundane appearence or when you've entered garb in an A&S contest. 

Total agreement here!!

>    In my experience I have seen people be criticised (unsolicited and unasked for) for haveing garb that wasn't "up to par" and told that they needed to get better garb. Why? Because these people had done the research and they knew what they were talking about and therefore hadd the right to pass or fail other peoples garb. They weren't too polite about it either. 

All we can do in this situation is just educate (both parties)... not as much
about kit correctness, but on how to respect one another.  I do not promote
the approach you describe.  I would be doing something like "Kewl! Hey, 
would you care to know how to make it even better??" or "Hey, I really like
the choice of fabric!  What made you pick that?"  Always say something 
nice, or find something to commend before making comments.  Also, ask 
permission to offer advice.  Sometimes my "buffer" is full, and I am not ready 
to hear what others say.

> I'll give you a person example: L. James and I were at Bryn Gwald's Baronial Investiture not too long after I made my first Elizabethan man's doublet and pants. 

Not to typecast, but Bryn Gwlad has had a reputation in the past for being
on the high end of the pickiness scale.  They seem to teach "high-persona"
building, and I would guess this promotes a sort of competitiveness.  I don't 
know anyone there right now, but I don't see how it could change too much
within the last few years.

>Which James was wearing and wearing proudly. "See what my lady made for me? Isn't she kewl?" frequenly passed his lips. 

I am sure he was very proud... as proud as I would be to have one of your
garments!!  Unfortunately, if he phrased it just that way, he may have 
seemed to be inviting comment...

>Do you know who the cruelest people were? Some of his fellow cadets, who definitely needed better garb themsleves. And who should have known better especially given what they aspire to be.

That was indeed very low.  I know that he does not have a choice in 
selecting his brothers-in-arms, but does their opinion really matter?  Is it 
possible that they were speaking out of jealousy?  Did he tell them that 
their opinion was not solicited?  I hope he said something to decry their
behaviour....

> My point here is that no one, no matter how much knowledge they have has  the right  to pass certified approval on someone's clothing. Doing so only discourages poeple from aparticiapeing, rarely does it inspire people to do better. In fact many people walk away from encounters like this mutterering "It's the Society for Creative Anachronism, not Compulsive Authenticity" under their breathes. 

This is all about having an attitude which needs to be modified... and when
people say "It's the SCA, not...", it seems to me to say they have closed
their mind to learning or trying to do it better.  It is very negative and
defeatist.  I do not teach this phrase to new people, and I am certainly all 
for stamping it out.  In the face of criticism, they forget that it is all our 
duty to treat each other with respect (in the words of the SCA 
Organizational Handbook -- "All participants are expected to behave as 
ladies and gentlemen."; to me, that means a respect for the beliefs, skills, 
and knowledge of others.

>In my experience, your mileage may vary, it is also these poeple who keep repeating for years. Is this name calling? Yes, in a way. But who started it? Who was disrerspectful first?

This is a very childish attitude.  "MOOOOM!! He touched me!!!"  "Did not!!"
"MOOOOMMMM, now he's breathing on me!!" "UUhh-uhhh!!" "He's pickin' on
me!!"  What do you say to kids that are in an argument?  "Stop!!" comes to
mind.  The point is... it has to stop somewhere.  Respect makes a civillized
society.  "Kill them with kindness!" is what my Mother told me.  It is not 
easy... in fact it is easier to hate someone for their attitude than anything
else, I think.  It doesn't matter who started it; just because someone is 
disrespectful does not absolve you of the responsibility for being a better 
person.  Lead by example.

> I think there's a certain  minimal amount of research that people in the SCA should be doing. I define the minimum amount of research as enough resaerch to build a  simple persona (simple answers these questions:who, what, where, why,when) and enough research when building something for general use or entry into A&S that you know what was used in period, what it was made out of in period, what the period technoques would have been to make said object in period and why your object is different than it would have been in period (due to materials substituion, tools that weren't available, materials that weren't available,etc.) 

I pretty much agree with that, but not everyone does.  I agree with this
so much I hardly have any gear because my standards are so high.  I get
too lost in the details....

>    While I myself am tryinmg to move toa mor period  encampment a, perosna and garb it is a persoanl choice that I have made. Anything above  the minimum this is strictly a matter of personal invovlment and choice. It doesn't make you better than somone else and choosing not to do so does not make another  "less" worhty to participate. Using knowledge  as an excuse to abuse others is just as much a disgrace, no, actually it's more, to the SCA than those shiny polyester pants walking by.

Wholehearted agreement here, too!!

>p.s. Sounds like you've got a lot on your mind. Want to sit down at the event and talk about it?

Something snapped... that phrase set me off a bit.  I am recovered.  I
still wouldn't mind talking to you at the event, if you like. :)

Regards,
-Jacinth-