SC - Re: baklava

Mon Apr 2 04:18:23 PDT 2001

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>Hrolf Hrolfsen apparently wrote, about Baklava:
>>"The recipe is easy.

The recipe quoted by Hrolf is from p218, The Complete Middle Eastern 
Cookbook, by Tess Mallos (Landsdowne 1979), and called baklawa be'aj. No 
date or references are given.

Claudia Roden, in A New Book of Middle Eastern Food, (Penguin 1970) states 
that "the pastries (baklava and kadayif) are not mentioned in medieval 
Persian or Arabic works, and seem to have made their appearance in the 
region during the time of the Ottoman empire" and lists as references 
al-Baghdadi, the Kitab al-Tabikh (1239), the Kitab al-Wusla tec (before 
1261). Roden also recounts the tale "The Poisoned dish of Baklawa" from the 
Tales of Nasr-ed Din Khoja (translated from the Turkish by Henry D Barnham 
1923), which again gives no specific recipe, and would seem to be used as 
an equivalent term by the translator.

Andrew Daly notes in Siren Feasts: A History of Food and Gastronomy in 
Greece (Routledge 1996) that although all the ingredients are common 
throughout Greece and the Middle East, there does not seem to have been a 
dish by this name known in Greece before the modern era.

Two websites on the history of baklava:

http://www.baklavachef.com/history.html
The traditional history, which indicates it is period, and not just Turkish.
I just don't know. Note the last paragraph about what is and isn't baklava.

http://www.atamanhotel.com/kitchen/baklava.html
Another traditional history, with some interesting info.

I don't know how accurate they are, but make interesting reading 
nontheless. I'm inclined to think there was something referred to as 
baklava, but that is not what we would know by the same name.

>Hrolf's assertion:
>  " I can say that this is one of the areas of the world where methods do not
>change (with the exception of the tomato / tamarind swap and the ready
>adoption of chilli - which was done in period) over the centuries."

is *arrant rubbish*. Please pardon my bluntness, but I get *very* sick of 
people making this statement about Middle Eastern culture, despite the fact 
that it has been proven wrong again and again. The culture (including 
clothing, cooking, etc) was no more static than Western Europe was in the 
same period, as even a moderate amount of research will show. I too would 
be very interested in Hrolf's evidence to support this statement.

Giles de Laval
Lochac

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<html>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Hrolf Hrolfsen apparently wrote, about
Baklava: 
<blockquote type=cite cite>"The recipe is easy. 
</blockquote></blockquote> 
The recipe quoted by Hrolf is from p218, The Complete Middle Eastern
Cookbook, by Tess Mallos (Landsdowne 1979), and called baklawa be'aj.
No date or references are given. 
 
Claudia Roden, in A New Book of Middle Eastern Food, (Penguin
1970) states that "the pastries (baklava and kadayif) are not
mentioned in medieval Persian or Arabic works, and seem to have made
their appearance in the region during the time of the Ottoman
empire" and lists as references al-Baghdadi, the Kitab al-Tabikh
(1239), the Kitab al-Wusla tec (before 1261). Roden also recounts the
tale "The Poisoned dish of Baklawa" from the Tales of Nasr-ed
Din Khoja (translated from the Turkish by Henry D Barnham 1923), which
again gives no specific recipe, and would seem to be used as an
equivalent term by the translator.  
 
Andrew Daly notes in Siren Feasts: A History of Food and Gastronomy in
Greece (Routledge 1996) that although all the ingredients are common
throughout Greece and the Middle East, there does not seem to have been a
dish by this name known in Greece before the modern era. 
 
Two websites on the history of baklava: 
 
<a href="http://www.baklavachef.com/history.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.baklavachef.com/history.</a><a href="http://www.baklavachef.com/history.html" eudora="autourl">html 
</a>The traditional history, which indicates it is period, and
not just Turkish. 
I just don't know. Note the last paragraph about what is and isn't
baklava. 
 
<a href="http://www.atamanhotel.com/kitchen/baklava.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.atamanhotel.com/kitchen/baklava.</a><a href="http://www.atamanhotel.com/kitchen/baklava.html" eudora="autourl">html 
</a>Another traditional history, with some interesting
info. 
 
I don't know how accurate they are, but make interesting reading
nontheless. I'm inclined to think there was something referred to as
baklava, but that is not what we would know by the same name. 
 
<blockquote type=cite cite>Hrolf's assertion: 
 " I can say that this is one of the areas of the world where
methods do not 
change (with the exception of the tomato / tamarind swap and the
ready 
adoption of chilli - which was done in period) over the
centuries."</blockquote> 
is *arrant rubbish*. Please pardon my bluntness, but I get *very* sick of
people making this statement about Middle Eastern culture, despite the
fact that it has been proven wrong again and again. The culture
(including clothing, cooking, etc) was no more static than Western Europe
was in the same period, as even a moderate amount of research will show.
I too would be very interested in Hrolf's evidence to support this
statement. 
 
Giles de Laval 
Lochac 
 
</html>

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