[Sca-cooks] Apicius
Claire Galibois
galibois at lycos.com
Sun May 13 11:01:56 PDT 2001
Greetings!
I have found a used/out of print book website ( http://www.alibris.com/ ) that has ~10 books listed with Apicius in the title. Right now I have a friend's copy of the translated cookbook of Apicius, but she wants it back sometime before snow falls in July and I want a copy of my own! I'm not quite willing to pay $500 for the book, but there are a few more reasonably priced copies listed. I was just wondering which of the listed volumes (or which translations in general) tend to be better.
Thanks!
:)
Genevieve (who's had thoughts about living in ancient Rome...just for the food, of course!)
---
There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats.
Albert Schweitzer
On Fri, 11 May 2001 10:23:04
sca-cooks-request wrote:
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>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: New Cook Book (Elaine Koogler)
> 2. Strawberries (Morgan Cain)
> 3. Utterly OT - Genetic breakthroughs (Philip & Susan Troy)
> 4. looking for johan (Mary Morman)
> 5. Re: RE [Sca-cooks] Ainsley Harriot (Lord Boroghul Khara)
> 6. Re: Strawberry Recipes? (Elaine Koogler)
> 7. Re: Strawberries (DeeWolff at aol.com)
> 8. Re: Skyr? and intro (UlfR)
> 9. Re: Skyr? and intro (Nanna Rognvaldardottir)
> 10. Re: Utterly OT - Genetic breakthroughs (Elaine Koogler)
> 11. Re: Strawberry Recipes? (Jessica Tiffin)
> 12. Ancient cookery - smudged word (nexus at panix.com)
> 13. Re: Jellied milk ... (nexus at panix.com)
> 14. Scandinavian translation silliness (Vincent Cuenca)
> 15. Re: Ancient cookery - smudged word (Philip & Susan Troy)
> 16. Re: Strawberry Recipes? (Michael Gunter)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 08:53:26 -0400
>From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] New Cook Book
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
>
>Reginleif wrote:
>
>> Does anyone on the list have any experiance with this book, or perhaps ow=
>n it? Does anyone have any opinions on this?
>>
>
>I have owned the book for several years...in fact, it was one of the main s=
>ources, along with Platina, that I used for a feast some years ago that was=
> a combination of Roman and Italian recipes. I have learned a great deal f=
>rom the book, and it has led me to seek out the books she used in writing t=
>his one. I especially like the way she has explained the origins of Italia=
>n cookery. I also used it as one of my sources for an article I wrote for =
>Atlantia's A&S
>magazine, The Oak.
>
>Kiri
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>From: "Morgan Cain" <morgancain at earthlink.net>
>To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 08:06:23 -0500
>Subject: [Sca-cooks] Strawberries
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>Reginleif asked:
>
>> Does anyone have any good recipes involving fresh strawberries that would
>> be acceptable for a feast? Hopefully somewhat simple to make, .....
>
>When I did the Lent/Passover feast for North Regional Warlord, I made a
>"trifle" of cream, rosewater, and spices (I think it came from "To The
>King's Taste" but would have to check the packet of recipes) and just served
>that with the berries. We used almond cream, of course, it being Lent, but
>you can use cow's cream now.
>
>I believe there is a simple custard recipe in "Pleyn Delit" that works well
>with berries. Just please avoid the Strawberry Tarte in "Jumbles Tartes and
>Shrewsberry Cakes" (or a title close to that; the books are downstairs) as a
>quick read shows it does NOT follow the original.
>
>Besides, you only cook strawberries when they have gone past prime. If they
>are fine, eat them fresh! (Note: This philosophy may not be medievally
>accurate.)
>
> ---= Morgan
>
>
>====================================================
>"The reason grandparents and grandchildren get along
> so well is that they have a common enemy."
> ---= Sam Levenson
>====================================================
> M. Harold Goodman - 1918 - April 17, 2001
> Husband, father, stepfather, grandfather,
> great-grandfather -=- much beloved
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:00:28 -0400
>From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
>To: SCA COOKS <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: [Sca-cooks] Utterly OT - Genetic breakthroughs
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>Hullo, the list!
>
>I was referred to this web site because, it was alleged, it contained
>information that may be of interest to me as a cook. And since this is a
>cook's list... well...
>
>http://nbctv.nbci.com/NBCconan/index.asp?section=mated
>
>This could be either the result of a major breakthrough in genetic
>research, or somebody fooling around with Photoshop and Kay's Power Goo.
>Of particular interest to some list members may be the frame containing
>references to the potential union and offspring of Cruella De Vil and
>The Grinch... second prize, IMO, the the discussion of Geraldo Rivera
>and Darva Conger (I love that name almost as much as I would Alma Lamprey).
>
>Adamantius
>--
>Phil & Susan Troy
>
>troy at asan.com
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 07:12:10 -0600
>From: Mary Morman <mem.morman at oracle.com>
>To: "SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.ORG" <SCA-Cooks at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: [Sca-cooks] looking for johan
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>i'm building a brick oven this summer, and am trying to contact johan
>von trautenberg (debatable lands). if anyone has a current address for
>johan, could you please contact me directly?
>thanks,
>elaina
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>From: "Lord Boroghul Khara" <boroghul at narn.pecan-tree.com>
>To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: Re: RE [Sca-cooks] Ainsley Harriot
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:09:39 -0400
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>Maire uge-ber:
>
>
>> Uhm...who's Ainsley Harriott?
>> --Maire (not really as ignorant as I seem, I promise <g>)
>
>A rather odd behaving chef. I first saw him on BBC America's "Can't Cook,
>Won't Cook"
>Apparently, he had a short lived series here in the states on NBC as well.
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:14:19 -0400
>From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Strawberry Recipes?
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>I believe someone else mentioned this recipe, and, having made it, immediat=
>ely remembered it. The version I have comes from a book published by folks=
> in the Midrealm, and edited by Duchess Caellyn Fitzhugh:
>
>A Tarte of Strawberries
>
>1 qt. strawberries
>1/2 C. red wine
>1/2 C. sugar
>1 tsp. each ginger, cinnamon
>1 Tbsp. cornstarch
>1 baked single pie crust shell
>
>Wash and stem the strawberries; drain. Heat wine, sugar, spices, dissolve =
>the cornstarch in a little cold wine and add to the mixture. Simmer until =
>thick. Arrange the berries in the baked shell and pour syrup ovr them. Ch=
>ill, garnish and serve.
>
>This came from Sallets, Humbles and Shrewsbery Cakes. Now I know that the =
>cornstarch isn't period, but you could use ground bread crumbs instead. I =
>have no idea what the original recipe looked like, as it's not given in ths=
> source. What we did was to make the strawberry part of this and use it as=
> a garnish on
>Darioles...this has become known as a signature dish for our barony as our =
>livery is red and white! The recipe is periodoid, especially if you substi=
>tute a more period thickener, but it is quite tasty and allows you to retai=
>n the beauty of the fresh strawberries!
>
>Kiri
>
>Katy Ice wrote:
>
>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>> --
>> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Does anyone have any good recipes involving fresh strawberries that would=
> be acceptable for a feast? Hopefully somewhat simple to make, as I am runn=
>ing short on time before Saturday, when the feast is. I have ALOT of fresh,=
> ripe strawberries here and was hoping to find something yummy to make for =
>Sat. Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Reginleif
>> An Tir
>>
>> --
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>From: DeeWolff at aol.com
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:16:25 EDT
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Strawberries
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>Strawberye.
>Take strawbeyes,&waysshe hem in tyme of yere in gode red wyne; Pan strayne
>Porwe a cloPe,& do hem in a potte with gode Almaunde mylke, a-lay it with
>Amyndoun oPer with Pe flowre of Rys, & make it chargeaunt and lat it boyle,
>do Per-in Roysons of couraunce,Safroun,pepir,Sugre grete plente, pouder
>Gyngere,Canel, Galyngale; poynteit with Vynegere, & a lytil whyte grece put
>Per -to ;coloure it with Alkenade,& droppe it a-bowte, plante it with Pe
>graynys of pome-garnard, & serue it forth.
>
>Harleian MS 279-Potage Duvers
>
>(know that all the "P"'s are supposed to be backwards...
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:49:00 +0200
>From: UlfR <parlei-sc at algonet.se>
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Skyr? and intro
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>John and Helen Brinsmead <the_brinsmeads at dingoblue.net.au> [2001.05.11] wrote:
>
>> adventurous in the kitchen cooking for the family, so am learning on
>> two fronts, thanks in advance for the info. Joined in just as Mister
>> Evil Admin gave his piece -- awww, what a great note to come in on.
>
>No such things as too much learning, and this is a great place to learn.
>
>> OK, straight into the hard stuff - Ulfr is talking of skyr and
>> unfortunately the enhanced ASCII chars aren't coming through -
>
>That's fine. I and Nanna tend to use ISO-8859-1 (Latin 1), since it
>covers all the funky characters we like to use every now and then. If it
>turns out to be a manjor annoyance to lots of people at least I can try
>to transcribe things, but that is a loss of information...
>
>Skyr is a form of fresh cheese that is mentioned in the Icelandic Sagas,
>and still eaten on Iceland. Nanna, being the lucky one, lives on Iceland
>where she can get hold of what is the real thing, baring any
>evolution/changes that hs taken place over the last 1000 years. Here in
>Sweden I have to make do with a substitute, which is the yogurt cheese.
>Basically take a suitably tart yogurt, and let it drain from a thin fabric
>bag.
>
>ISTR that Nanna has earlier posted direction for how to make the
>real thing, but you would need access to a live culture to do
>that.
>
>/UlfR
>
>--
>UlfR parlei-sc at algonet.se
>Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
>(Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 9
>From: "Nanna Rognvaldardottir" <nanna at idunn.is>
>To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Skyr? and intro
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 14:39:32 -0000
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>First: =DAlfR, I need your adress again - I seem to have deleted it. Can yo=
>u
>email it to my home account, nannar at isholf.is ?
>>
>>ISTR that Nanna has earlier posted direction for how to make the
>>real thing, but you would need access to a live culture to do
>>that.
>>
>
>Here is a recipe from the (uncorrected) manuscript of my forthcoming book:
>
>Skyr
>Makes around 5 pounds skyr and 5 quarts whey
>
>Skyr has been made in Iceland since the Settlement, but the skyr of those
>times was probably much thinner than it is today. Skyr was also made in
>Scandinavia and variations of it are still known there, but in Iceland it
>was extremely popular and most of the milk that was gathered from cows and
>ewes during the summer was used for skyr-making.
>Skyr is traditionally made with unpasteurized fresh skim milk, but
>buttermilk may also be used. Ideally, you should use a little skyr as a
>starter for the new batch but since anyone who tries to make skyr on his ow=
>n
>is probably doing so because skyr is unavailable, sour cream will usually
>have to do. It won=92t be true skyr, of course, but it should be near enoug=
>h
>for most uses.
>
>10 quarts skim milk, or 8 quarts skim milk and 2 quarts buttermilk
>2 heaped tablespoons skyr or sour cream
>rennet (see package for instructions on how much to use)
>
>Warm the milk up to 190=B0F and hold it at this temperature for 10 minutes,
>taking care that the milk doesn=92t scorch or come to the boil. Use a candy
>thermometer to be safe. Pour the milk int a large bowl or bucket and cool i=
>t
>quickly down to 100=B0F. If the room where you are working is very cold, th=
>e
>temperature should be a few degrees higher, but it must not be too high.
>Gradually dilute the starter with warm milk, until it has become so thin
>that it will mix easily with the milk in the bowl. Add the rennet
>(dissolved, unless it is in liquid form) and stir well.
>At this stage, the milk should cool down very slowly. Place a lid on the
>container and cover it with towels to retain the warmth. After 3 hours,
>check the milk. It should have coagulated by now, enough to make a cut that
>doesn=92t close immediately. With a sharp knife that reaches to the bottom =
>of
>the container, cut a double cross into it, all the way through. Cover again
>and let stand for 2-3 hours more. Check if the skyr and remove the lid if i=
>t
>is well coagulated, else keep it covered a little longer. Refrigerate
>overnight.
>Spread a cheesecloth over a large colander and place it over a bowl. Pour o=
>r
>spoon the skyr into the colander. Tie the corners of the cheesecloth
>together, hang it over a bowl and let the skyr drain for 8-12 hours, until
>fairly firm.
>The final stage used to be to weigh the skyr down for a few hours to drain
>it even further but that is rarely done now.
>When the skyr is to be served, it is whipped until smooth and diluted with
>milk if it is very thick. Some sugar is usually added and it is served with
>more sugar and milk or a mixture of milk and cream. Berries or fruit are a
>good accompaniment.
>
>Most Icelanders eat skyr as a dessert or as a sweet breakfast or lunch dish
>but it was formerly used in other ways too (stirred into soups, for
>instance) and imaginative cooks have been finding new ways to use it in
>later years. It can for instance be mixed with garlic, herbs and spices and
>used as a dip (try making Greek tzatziki with skyr, for instance). It can b=
>e
>used in breads and cakes and skyr-cakes, similar to cheesecakes, are
>delicious.
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:19:17 -0400
>From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler at chesapeake.net>
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Utterly OT - Genetic breakthroughs
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>I needed this! I'm also glad to see that I'm not the only one who found
>Darla's name somewhat "fishy"!!
>
>Kiri
>
>Philip & Susan Troy wrote:
>
>> Hullo, the list!
>>
>> I was referred to this web site because, it was alleged, it contained
>> information that may be of interest to me as a cook. And since this is a
>> cook's list... well...
>>
>> http://nbctv.nbci.com/NBCconan/index.asp?section=mated
>>
>> This could be either the result of a major breakthrough in genetic
>> research, or somebody fooling around with Photoshop and Kay's Power Goo.
>> Of particular interest to some list members may be the frame containing
>> references to the potential union and offspring of Cruella De Vil and
>> The Grinch... second prize, IMO, the the discussion of Geraldo Rivera
>> and Darva Conger (I love that name almost as much as I would Alma Lamprey).
>>
>> Adamantius
>> --
>> Phil & Susan Troy
>>
>> troy at asan.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 16:36:12 +0200
>From: Jessica Tiffin <melisant at iafrica.com>
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Strawberry Recipes?
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>Maire said:
>>There's a period recipe somewhere (too early in a.m. for me to remember
>>which cookbook <g>) that's a strawberry tart...I've never made it, by
>>I've seen it done. IIRC, there's a pie crust, and the fresh straberries
>>are cut in half (?), and placed in the crust, and you pour red wine (or
>>a wine-based syrup?) over them and bake them....
>
>I've made this - it's a German recipe, think it's Sabina Welserin <brief
>pause while I check>.... yup. Recipe from the translation by Valoise
>Armstrong:
>
>89 To make a strawberry tart
>Make a pastry shell and let it become firm in the tart pan. Afterwards
>take strawberries and lay them around on top as close together as possible,
>after that sweeten them especially well. Next let it bake a short while,
>pour Malavosia over it and let it bake a while, then it is ready.
>
>The Shire _inhaled_ this when I cooked it for a feast - it vanished in
>record time. The sugar and Malavozsia (I think I used sherry) make a sort
>of syrup, but it still tends to be a fairly liquid filling. Lovely flavour.
>
>JdH
>
>
>Lady Jehanne de Huguenin (Jessica Tiffin)
>Chronicler, Shire of Adamastor, South Africa
>http://users.iafrica.com/m/me/melisant
>Sable, three owls rising argent, each maintaining a willow slip vert.
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 12
>From: nexus at panix.com
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:50:15 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ancient cookery - smudged word
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>Greetings all,
>
>my copy of Ancient Cookery, Arundel MS 344 has an illegible word
>in a recipe I am interested in. The recipe is 404, on pg 461
>(pg 41 if you're using the same version of Cariadoc's books as I am.)
>
>The recipe is Chekennes in Sauce, and the word I can't read in my copy
>is on the second line:
>
>"For x <something> take zolkes".
>
>So there is a ration of X(10) somethings to x1 (11) egg yolks. Knowing
>what the something is is rather important.
>
>Does anyone out there have access to this document in a form
>where that word is readable? If so, could they let me know
>what it is?
>
>Thank you,
>
>
>Jeff Berry nexus at panix.com ,
>Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne Whyt Whey, East ( >|
> http://www.panix.com/~nexus ) /|
>"You're a notch and I'm a legend"-------Alice Cooper
>"I don't need TV when I've got T-Rex"------Mott the Hoople
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 13
>From: nexus at panix.com
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:55:57 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Jellied milk ...
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>I know I'm coming in late to this discussion, but there
>are a variety of other recipes for this, some of which
>use Isenglass and some of which don't. I served Leach at a feast
>back in 95 and wrote it up in an article -- this one in fact.
>
>http://www.panix.com/~nexus/cooking/cc2.shtml
>
>
>Jeff Berry nexus at panix.com ,
>Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne Whyt Whey, East ( >|
> http://www.panix.com/~nexus ) /|
>"You're a notch and I'm a legend"-------Alice Cooper
>"I don't need TV when I've got T-Rex"------Mott the Hoople
>
>
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 14
>From: "Vincent Cuenca" <bootkiller at hotmail.com>
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 15:13:02
>Subject: [Sca-cooks] Scandinavian translation silliness
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>Okay, since nobody's actually trying to translate these things, I guess I'll
>have to. Fortunately I own a copy of the "Guide to Scandinavian Dialects"
>by Mr. Frederick Scuttle.
>
>> > ( - nu kommar jag ih=E5g att jag hadde sagt att jag ville skicka n=E5=
>>got
>> > torrkat fisk til deg. Det skall jag fixa redan i morgon - jag hadde
>>kompl=
>>ett
>> > gl=F6mt det. )
>>
>
>"I have a lovely bunch of coconuts."
>
>>Ingen orsak. Den som v=E4ntar p=E5 n=E5got gott... Och tillf=E4lle att sm=
>>=E5retas
>>med den gode romerske m=E4stern skall man ju inte _heller_ f=F6rspilla.
>
>"Please don't blame my doggie, it's not his fault at all; someone left a wet
>umbrella standing in the hall."
>
>How'd I do?
>
>:-)
>
>Vicente
>
>(sorry folks; couldn't help myself.)
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 15
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:18:45 -0400
>From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ancient cookery - smudged word
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>nexus at panix.com wrote:
>>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> my copy of Ancient Cookery, Arundel MS 344 has an illegible word
>> in a recipe I am interested in. The recipe is 404, on pg 461
>> (pg 41 if you're using the same version of Cariadoc's books as I am.)
>>
>> The recipe is Chekennes in Sauce, and the word I can't read in my copy
>> is on the second line:
>>
>> "For x <something> take zolkes".
>>
>> So there is a ration of X(10) somethings to x1 (11) egg yolks. Knowing
>> what the something is is rather important.
>>
>> Does anyone out there have access to this document in a form
>> where that word is readable? If so, could they let me know
>> what it is?
>
>I could be wrong; I'm looking at the same page you are, and can't seem
>to find it in the pages from it that have been set up on the SCA's A&S
>pages by Cindy Renfrow; how-_ever_, it _looks_ to me like X mess, as in,
>to make ten servings, or, if a mess is a "cover" for two, then 20 servngs.
>
>See the recipe to the immediate left of the recipe you're referencing,
>"Chikyns in Kirtyne for X Mess". Which, BTW, I don't think is a
>reference to a Christian holiday...
>
>Adamantius
>--
>Phil & Susan Troy
>
>troy at asan.com
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 16
>From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
>To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Strawberry Recipes?
>Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 10:20:45 -0500
>Reply-To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>
>
>>89 To make a strawberry tart
>>Make a pastry shell and let it become firm
>>in the tart pan. Afterwards take strawberries
>>and lay them around on top as close together as
>>possible, after that sweeten them especially well.
>>Next let it bake a short while,
>>pour Malavosia over it and let it bake a while,
>>then it is ready.
>
>>Lady Jehanne de Huguenin (Jessica Tiffin)
>
>Sounds nice. One question though. When it says to
>"let it become firm in the tart pan" does that
>mean to prebake the pie shell or let it sit out
>to stiffen?
>
>Gunthar
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