[Sca-cooks] lands

[Philip & Susan Troy]

Volker Bach wrote:

> Philip & Susan Troy schrieb:
>
>>Lord Boroghul Khara wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Reminds me of my year in Holland (1977-1978)
>>>While the family was on a road trip from our Village of Nieukoop touring
>>>Belgium, France, Switzerland, and Germany, I found myself face to face with
>>>a couple of things that struck me as just plain wierd as a kid, but had me
>>>laughing when I saw them touched upon by Whoopie Goldberg in later years.
>>>The first:   "These people haven't seen a black person since Hannibal came
>>>through"
>>>
>>Not to change the subject or anything, but have I missed some of the
>>research, and is there actually evidence suggesting Hannibal was black?
>>(I mean, apart from the fact that he was African?) I understood the
>>Carthaginians to be a largely Hellenized empire of caucasian ancestry.
>>But I see your point, especially in a part of Europe (and there are
>>several of them) where somebody with pale skin and brown hair and eyes
>>is apt to be nicknamed "Blackie".
>>
>
> None whatsoever, Neither does any exist to suggest
> Moses, Cleopatra, Septimius Severus or Theodosius
> I were, and yet that claim has been made. I have
> found repeatedly that people (including those who
> should know better) used the terms 'African' and
> 'black' interchangeably, leading to the widespread
> assumption that everyone from Africa was black
> (including Egyptians, Libyans, Berbers and
> Kabyles). We do not know whether Hannibal himself
> was of colonist ancestry (in fact we know this of
> none of the Carthaginian families we have evidence
> of), but if he was not (it is not unlikely, given
> the tenacity with which comparable family groups
> in Greek cities held together the 'colonist'
> heritage - we know that Dionysius of Syracuse
> could trace back his heritage to Corinthian
> emigrants) he was far more likely a Punicised
> local than a sub-Saharan black African. (The
> argument from his portrait bust is flawed on two
> counts: 1) that's hardly 'pronouncedly negroid' as
> a 50s textbook has it and 2) we don't even know
> whether the bust is really meant to depict him,
> let alone if it was made from life.) That said, he
> probably was considerably darker than his
> Alpine-Celtic mercenaries. As to the Carthaginians
> in general, they clearly distinguished 'white' and
> 'black' in their later, heavily hellenized art,
> but we do not know how far this reflected a real
> social bias rather than copying Greek originals.
> Most contemporary Mediterranean cultures, as far
> as we can tell, felt 'not black' in that they
> thought of blacks as 'outsiders', so it is at
> least likely they would have noted it if the
> Carthaginians had been predominatly black.
>
> As an aside, the 'Moors' of much modern literature
> on the period are 'Mauri', Maghrebin tribal groups
> most likely not black. I don't know when the
> equation Moor=black was first made, but the
> Ancients did not make it.
>
> BTW it's interesting that few afrocentrics are
> prepared to claim Septimius Severus while most
> white supremacists are happy to grant him, quite
> the opposite being true of Moses :-)
>
> rambling now
>
> Giano


Que?


This is just something I haven't researched, and I'm familiar with some of the revisionist history that says, for example, that Cleopatra was black, which would have amazed the bejeezus outta her Greek father. On the other hand, I've never seen a mention in the various literature on the Great Conspiracy that Nefertiri (I think it was her, wife of one Rameses or another, IIRC) was black, although she is almost always depicted in statuary and other illustrations as being distinctly Ethiopian in appearance.


And here we are, with a perfectly good African mystery, to wit, Prester
John, and not a shred of info, as far as I've seen.

Adamantius
--
Phil & Susan Troy

troy at asan.com

"It was so blatant that Roger threw at him.  Clemens gets away with
things that get other people thrown out of games.  As long as they
let him get away with it, it's going  to continue." -- Joe Torre, 9/98