[Sca-cooks] lands

[Volker Bach]

Philip & Susan Troy schrieb:
>
> Volker Bach wrote:
> > BTW it's interesting that few afrocentrics are
> > prepared to claim Septimius Severus while most
> > white supremacists are happy to grant him, quite
> > the opposite being true of Moses :-)
> >
> > rambling now
> >
>
> Que?
>
> This is just something I haven't researched, and I'm familiar with some of the revisionist history that says, for example, that Cleopatra was black, which would have amazed the bejeezus outta her Greek father.

One problem that almost all such arguments have,
one way or the other, is that they use terms such
as 'Greek', 'Semitic' or 'Indo-European'. Those
are languages. We can tell from names, written
documents and occasionally from typical mistakes
in other languages what tongue a long-defunct
people spoke. That does not necessarily tell us
anything about their skin color or other details
of their biological origin, though. For example,
their own conviction notwithstanding the Franks
did NOT kill all the Romans in Northern Gaul. They
thought they must have as everybody there spoke
Frankish in the 8th century, but in fact they had
simply assimilated them. Similar things are most
likely true of the Hittites conquering Asia Minor
and the arabs most of the Middle East, and all
kinds of other peoples. After all, the fact that
most US blacks today speak English does not make
them white. I agree that Cleopatra most probably
was white, but the fact that she has a Greek name
and spoke Greek isn't proof. Anyway, strictly
speaking she's of Macedonian stock, and every real
Greek knew them Macedonians were really half
barbarian and at least a quarter bear :-)

> On the other hand, I've never seen a mention in the various literature on the Great Conspiracy that Nefertiri (I think it was her, wife of one Rameses or another, IIRC) was black, although she is almost always depicted in statuary and other illustrations as being distinctly Ethiopian in appearance.

Well, Nefertiti quite probably was a good deal
darker than the ideal found in Egyptian paintings
(then again, how much reality do these paintings
present?). Some think she's Hittite, which would
present interesting questions given the Hittites
spoke an Indo-European language. She's certainly
beautiful, or at least her portrait in Berlin is
:-)
Septimius Severus was from Leptis Magna in the
Tripolitania (modern Libya IIRC) and many late
19th/early 20th century historians blame him for
the decline and fall of the Roman Empire (entirely
falsely!). The explanation for his failings
(rendered variously as bloodthirstiness,
vengefulness, wanton cruelty, greed, cowardice,
overbearing arrogance, superstition, hatred of all
things 'Aryan' and clannishness in any
combination) is then frequently found in his
'African' or 'Punic blood'. I have it anecdotally
that Septimius Severus was mentioned by a Southern
Congressman in the 50s as an example what would
happen to America if 'the nigrahs' were
desegregated. Unfortunately for the Supremacists'
argument, Severus actually was a very capable,
diligent, well-educated, realistic and
hard-working administrator who most likely did
more to save the Empire from its internal
weaknesses than to destroy it. Unfortunately for
the Afrocentrist cause, he was white and of
Italian ancestry.
Theodosius I' father Theodosius the Elder was
Comes Africae ('Count of Africa') at the time of
his execution. This allowed a
not-too-discriminating fellow student to claim him
for the brothers. (Personally, I wouldn't dream of
making a proud claim of relationship with
hang'em-and-burn-their-shrines Theo, but that's
just me)
Moses was claimed by a Southern Black Baptist
preacher in a documentary/round table television
discussion on arte, a European 'culture channel'
kind of thing.

> And here we are, with a perfectly good African mystery, to wit, Prester
> John, and not a shred of info, as far as I've seen.

Prester John has four problems with pop culture:

1) hardly anyone has heard of him. Honestly, most
people know Moses from Sunday school, Cleopatra
from the screen and possibly Nefertiti from
pictures (she's somehow related to Tutankhamen,
and almost everybody knows the story of the
Curse). Until a generation or two ago, Roman
emperors were de rigeur at the schools and
colleges of the old elites. But medieval legendry?

2) He's really legendary. Historians will start
prevaricating and telling you stuff about lack of
documentation and free-floating fictitious
characters projecting the desires of the age and
if you try to pin them down they admit that most
likely the story has its origins in the Christian
kingdom of Abyssinia.

3) he never won (or lost) any really big battles
or went to bed with any characters from
Shakespearean drama.

4) everybody is prepared to concede he is black,
anyway.

So unlike your reactions to 'Moses was black!'
(which can be quite violent), the reactions to
'Prester John was black!' will probably range from
'Who?' to 'So what?'.

I love it when politicians get their hands on
history :-)

Giano