[Sca-cooks] olives in period Russia

[Volker Bach]

Stefan li Rous schrieb:
>
> Giano said:
> > I don't think olives grow very well in any part of
> > the Kievan Rus (checking school atlas - nope, the
> > northern boundary of modern olive cultivation
> > skirts the southern Black Sea coast), but olive
> > oil was a trade good in the later middle ages
>
> So Misha, when is your persona? To do a good job on
> persona it needs to be tied to a specific time, not just
> an area.
>
> > (witness many period German and English cookbooks)
>
> I must have missed this. Is this really the case? Does the olive
> oil only show up as a Lenten/fast day exception? Butter was
> restricted on some days whereas olive oil wasn't. Apparently
> this did cause some friction between northern and southern
> Europe.

Unfortunately almost all my cookbooks are
currently boxed or bagged as I'm in the middle of
moving house (and the new cooking range is crappy,
too - need to save and buy a proper one). However,
I can point you to Montanari, Fame e Abbondanza,
for a look at period cooking fats. I think Meister
Eberhard mentions oil (again, my copy's boxed). I
feel fairly sure that guote spise does not. As to
fast day substituters, I could well imagine that
but am now too far from my sources. There are
records of the Earl of Northumberland buying olive
oil by the gallon in 1512, though that is
certainly very late period (some of my history
books are not yert crated :-))

> If olive oil was in northern Europe only as a fast day
> substitute, would this be the case in Russia which was
> Orthodox Christian and not Roman Christian?

I don't know about Orthodox fast day customs, but
bear in mind we are talking about the child of an
Italian merchant. The Italian colonies of the
Black Sea coast were definitely Catholic, and
wealthy. I could well see them importing such
delicacies.

> > and anyone involved in trade would be able to get
> > their hands on it, through Novgorod or the Black
> > Sea ports. Where you can take olive oil you can
> > take pickled olives . . . so now you need a reason
> > for your persona to want to.
>
> And be willing to pay for it. When you say "pickled" olives
> are you talking about packing them in olive oil? or in vinegar
> or brine?

I think the traditional method is to carry them in
oil, but I don't know enough about medieval trade
yet.

YIS

Giano