[Sca-cooks] Irish beef, cattle

[Philip & Susan Troy]

Stefan li Rous wrote:


>>Okay so this is REALLY LATE, and I'm sorry if it's already been answered, but
>>the Tales Of Cuchalain (sp?) clearly state that one of the primarly reasons
>>for war between Ulster and Connaught was the cattle raid. Meaebh wanted the
>>Brown Bull of Cooley as a prize and the men of Connaught got it back. So yeah
>>there were cattle in Ireland in period.


I really love The Tain Bo Cualgne! How can you not love an epic whose
entire plot hinges on an argument between a king and his queen on who is
richer, and when the king and queen discover that _he_ is the richer, he
very chivalrously agrees to steal this mythical giant brown bull from a
third party, for her, so that equality will be maintained? And never
mind that the queen is prepared to offer, shall we say, anything at all,
if you get my drift, to any man who will help her? Not _that's_ a story!
And then there's all this extraneous stuff about Cuchullain an' a'...

(I really dislike this stereotyping of the Irish as an amoral people,
though. Merely pragmatic ;-).  )


>>Also of interest are the Coos of Highland Scotland. They are furry cattle,
>>look almost like small hairy bison.
>>
>
> Interesting. However, it doesn't negate what I said. My point was
> not that they didn't have cattle in Ireland. It was that just having
> the cattle doesn't mean that there would have been a unique Irish
> dish made with it. And your examples are still talking about Irish
> cattle, not Irish beef. Also, the "Brown Bull of Cooley" by
> itself, is not evidence that there were cattle in Ireland, unless
> that specifically refers to a live bull and not a statue.

Glory bee ta gawd, the man has eyes an' will not see. How can a man
spend all that time archivin' an' not _know_ anythin'? (Sorry, Stefan, I
had to say it just once ;-). ) But yes, the Brown Bull of Cooley is the
subject of an epic poem, akin to the Iliad, about the capture/theft of
this bull, and the war that occurs between (I think) the kingdoms of
Meath and Ulster as a result, complete with kewl descriptions of
Cuchullainn's bodily changes as he goes into his warp-spasm/berserker
mode and starts hopping around on the edges of shields and swiping off
heads like golf balls.

I really, really want Ang Lee to direct a film version. Of course he
would never do anything so shallow, so he's working on "The Incredible
Hulk" instead. I kid you not.

But I digress... Stefan, there's a lot of evidence, both fossil/midden
and anecdotal, to suggest that there were cattle being raised in Ireland
in period. Whether the particular dish of spiced, salted beef (which is
also found in England, BTW) can be proven to be exclusively Irish (which
I frankly doubt) is another matter. However, the dish _in Ireland_ is
pretty darned old, at least 18th century, I think.

Adamantius
--
Phil & Susan Troy

troy at asan.com

"It was so blatant that Roger threw at him.  Clemens gets away with
things that get other people thrown out of games.  As long as they
let him get away with it, it's going  to continue." -- Joe Torre, 9/98