[Sca-cooks] Ceramic cooking pots was Re:Master Hroars Email

[Philippa Alderton]

--- Mercy Neumark <mneumark at hotmail.com> wrote:

> The wheel was developed as one of the books have
> discussed, in 3rd Century
> BC in China (thought there are some arguements
> saying that it was created in
> the middle east someplace earlier).  Before then,
> most ceramics were formed
> either using coils, slabs or pinch pot types.  All
> of these techniques,
> depending on the skill of the potter, are equally
> stable.  No integrity
> issues should happen if the potter is doing
> everything right.

Yeah, the operative phrase being, "If the potter is
doing everything right ;-)" Been there, done it both
ways, right and wrong.

And, yes, I'm aware of many different ways of
constructing clay vessels, I was simply using the
wheel as an example standing in for using slips, pinch
pot methods, and wheels, where you're working with
something all of a piece, and "coil" as an example of
slab and coil types, where you're joining different
pieces ;-)

> That's definitely one way.  Another potter from St
> Louis area, Mistress Olga
> (we've discussed her peach pits molds here before)
> makes lovely LONG legged
> pipkins and I saw a picture of hers over a fire.
> Also, when I was doing the
> documentation for my pipkin for pentathlon last
> year, Hroar sent me a
> picture of a period painting of a pipkin being used
> over a fire inside a
> house.  I can try to upload my documentation to my
> site (if I can remember)
> so anyone can see it.

I'd like to see them. I can see how a long-legged
pipkin would be perfectly safe and functional- the
weight is well distributed and even, so you aren't
having physical stress put on top of heat stress.

> >One of the items Hroar makes, as I mentioned, is a
> >brazier, and by its nature, there would be a large
> >temperature difference between the bottom and the
> top.
>
> I BELIEVE (and I'm not 100% sure) that you are
> talking about a chaffing
> dish.  Braizers are a bit different than a chaffing
> dish (more like a bucket
> with coals).  If you should definitly pick them up
> the next time you see it!
>   Pennsic last year I was helping him and I don't
> think he had any chaffing
> dishes...but since I'm copying him here, he can
> always make some to bring
> for you (and anyone else on this list, of course).
> :)

Well, when we were discussing them a few Pennsics ago,
he DEFINITELY referred to them as braziers. Later
study, of course, may have made him change his mind.
Send him my love, btw- it's been a while since I saw
him. I missed him last Pennsic, in spite of a couple
attempts to stop and see him because his shop (and the
entire bazaar he was in) got moved.

> >Oh, and about glazing the interior of your pots?
> The
> >yuppies have found an unglazed casserole with a lid
> >(can't think of its name, durn it) which they soak
> in
> >water, fill with food, and put in the oven, thus
> >partially steam-cooking the food. They seem to work
> >quite well- you might consider making one to
> >experiment with, once you get your skills up to the
> >level where you can actually make a pot lid that
> will
> >fit an existing pot ;-)
>
> For health reasons, I strongly suggest glazing
> inside a piece.  If milk or
> other like substances get into the pours of a pot
> (especially earthenware
> since they have more pours) or raw chicken, you may
> find health issues with
> that.  It depends on what you are doing with it,
> though.  I know there are
> pizza stones that are made of earthenware that are
> unglazed and no issues
> have occurred.  My first ceramic professor was
> adamant about glazing insides
> for food containors.  There is nothing wrong with
> trying it out though, if
> you're careful. :)

Well, I tend not to worry about such things, for the
simple reason that if you start out with raw chicken
in the pots, and it gets cooked, then any chicken
juices which might seep into the clay fabric will be
cooked, too. It's not the material cooked which causes
the problem, but rather the bacteria which feed on the
material, and heat goes a long way towards killing
them off. Also, all living things, including bacteria,
need water in addition to food, in order to reproduce,
and dry pots tend not to grow interesting things.

> >Just got to thinking, too- could period pots be
> >unglazed inside because they were normally soaked
> >before usage, but it never got mentioned for the
> same
> >reason modern recipes don't tell you to turn on the
> >stove?
>
> I don't think they were soaked, but I'm more shaker
> on my knowledge of
> cooking and techniques in period.  It would seem to
> me that if you did soak
> an earthenware pot it would help it expand more and
> as it gets hot and the
> stream comes off of it, it may help reduce the
> termal shock of the piece,
> reducing chance of cracking. ::shrugg::

Well, as I said, it's something to think about. But as
far as water causing too much expansion of the pot
fabric,are romertopfs made of a specific kind of clay
which is more tolerant of that usage?

> As far as pipkin recipes, I know I've seen some, but
> I don't know how period
> they are.  Momma Huette...didn't you find one awhile
> back?

Do let me know... I'm sure Stefan would like to know,
too.

> Pictures of my pottery are on my MSN community site,
> BTW.  I can't remember
> the url.  ARG!  I'll try to get it.

Please do ;-)

> Not on this email, but you mentioned asking for
> examples of brinze
> cookware...I'll try to look over my books and try to
> scan some in.
> Hopefully they say what they were used for and that
> they aren't just "bronze
> ding".  If Lucy Lui from Ally Mcbeal hit one, would
> that be called a "ding
> a-Ling?"

Well, if so, I suspect that would be like a branch
falling in the forest- I wouldn't be there to see or
hear it happen, so whether or not if made a noise
would not be anything I was either interested in or
aware of ;-)

Since you're visiting the Rock, do have some chocolatl
chip cookies ;-)

Phlip

=====
Never a horse that cain't be rode,
And never a rider who cain't be throwed....

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