[Sca-cooks] Hagen on cardamom/grains

[David Dendy]

I have been mostly lurking, but I have to jump in here, as a good deal of
confusion seems to be being spread. My copy of Hagan's work is at my office,
so I can't check if the quote is accurate, but if it is Hagen has garbled
things badly. I checked in my copy of Bede (which is at home). The reference
about Bede's gifts is actually in a letter written by one of his students,
Cuthbert, describing Bede's last days. He quotes Bede as saying "I have a
few articles of value in my casket, such as pepper, linen and incense. Run
quickly and fetch the priests of the monastery, so that I may distribute
among them the gifts that God has given me." So all Bede had was pepper and
incense, not this long list. It think Hagen (or her source) has jumbled
together all of the spice references from the various saints' lives (I
particularly recall mention of some of these in the life of Saint Winifrid
[otherwise known as Bonifatus], who was an Anglo-Saxon missionary to the
Frisians). Most of these spices are mentioned somewhere in the sources. But
the part identifying cardamom as grains of paradise is highly anachronistic,
as the first grains of paradise did not arrive in Europe until the eleventh
century, long after Bede! The confusuion between the two is of nineteenth or
twentieth century origin, and rises from misreading the old herbals, which
list *substitutions* which the druggist may make if out of a drug, saying
that cardamon may be substituted for grains. Obviously, if something is
listed as a substitute, it is *not* the same thing. As for the Nile thing,
this appears to be more garbling, as the the story about floating down the
Nile is usually told about cinnamon.

Yours pickily,
Francesco Sirene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jane Williams <jane at williams.nildram.co.uk>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: May 9, 2002 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Hagen on cardamom/grains


>On 9 May 2002 at 11:42, Elizabeth A Heckert wrote:
>
>>    Pg. 183:  "The spices Bede left to his brethren are said to have
>> included lavender, aniseed, buckwheat, cinnamon, cloves, cubebs,
>> coriander, cardamom ('grains of paradise' so called because they were
>> thought to float down the Nile from the earthly paradise), cypress roots
>> (galingale)  ginger (raw and preserved) gromic, liquorice, and sugar (as
>> well as pepper)."
>>
>>    Hagen footnotes the parenthetical aside on grain as being from Kuper,
>> *The Antropologist's Cookbook*, 1977, and footnotes the end of the
>> sentence referencing  *The  Seven Centuries' Cookbook*, by Maxime
>> McKendry.
>
>Having pulled the McKendry off the shelf, it looks as
>if Ann Hagen did an almost straight copy
>"cardamom (called grains of paradise), cypress roots
>(called garmgale, galmgale, or galyngale).." and
>added the bit about floating down the Nile from
>another source.
>
>I can ask her if you like? But I'm not sure it would
>achieve much.
>
>BTW, I seem to remember that last year, she was
>considering producing an Anglo-Saxon recipe
>collection. Should I be making encouraging noises
>about it and telling her that lots of people would buy?
>
>
>
>
>
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