[Sca-cooks] Hagen on cardamom/grains

[Jane Williams]

OK, I'm back from the course!

On 10 May 2002 at 22:06, David Dendy wrote:

> I have been mostly lurking, but I have to jump in here, as a good deal of
> confusion seems to be being spread. My copy of Hagan's work is at my office,
> so I can't check if the quote is accurate,

> >    Pg. 183:  "The spices Bede left to his brethren are said to have
> > included lavender, aniseed, buckwheat, cinnamon, cloves, cubebs,
> > coriander, cardamom ('grains of paradise' so called because they were
> > thought to float down the Nile from the earthly paradise), cypress roots
> > (galingale)  ginger (raw and preserved) gromic, liquorice, and sugar (as
> > well as pepper)."

Checking... almost. Cumin is also in the list between
cubebs and coriander.

> but if it is Hagen has garbled things badly.

Ann tells me she simply relied on McKendry as a
reference. These days (it was published in 1995,
remember, and written earlier) she is more inclined
to doubt McKendry as a reliable researcher.

She had no idea that cardamom and grains were not
the same thing before I mentioned it, and would very
much appreciate more information. Next edition
would then be corrected, with the assistance credited
as appropriate.

Now, I can look up the differences on the Web easily
enough, and when my pack of Grains comes
through, can supply her with some as a sample.

But from what David says below, there's more to it
than that?

> The reference about Bede's gifts is actually in a letter written by one
> of his students, Cuthbert, describing Bede's last days. .... So all
> Bede had was pepper and incense, not this long list. It think Hagen (or
> her source) has jumbled together all of the spice references from the
> various saints' lives

>  But the part identifying cardamom as grains of paradise is highly
> anachronistic, as the first grains of paradise did not arrive in Europe
> until the eleventh century, long after Bede!

I'm sure Ann would appreciate knowing more about
this, too, and I don't have the references or expertise
to help. She doesn't have email access, or I'd
suggest she joined the list for a bit.

Are there articles where all this has already been
explained that I could print out for her? Any other
suggestions?