Thank you so much, Johnnae! This is exactly the sort of information I was looking for. Yours, Katherine -- Lady Katherine Rowberd (mka Kirrily "Skud" Robert) katherine at infotrope.net http://infotrope.net/sca/ Caldrithig, Skraeling Althing, Ealdormere "The rose is red, the leaves are grene, God save Elizabeth our Queene"