[Sca-cooks] Swan

Wed Sep 17 05:51:58 PDT 2003

Now, to give more info re: swans:

(relayed from my husband the bird keeper at the zoo:)

Most swan cygnets (babies) are gray until adult.  That is why, if you ever see an instruction as to how to tell the age of a swan and to get a tasty bird, you are instructed to get a bird that is not white. (We are talking about Mutes, Trumpeters, and Black-necks; Black swans are a different story).

Well, accidental selection happened.  Every once in a while you will have a baby swan who is white from birth.  They are not hunted and otherwise taken from the gene pool.  After lo these many years, you have a new species of bird (the Polish) that is not gray at all.

Swan is quite good, if eaten in the first year.

Another bird that I don't know if it is period or not, but is very tasty and in season soon, is Sandhill Crane.  Looks like beef; tasts like finest venison, and you cook it the same way.

Anyone who is within driving distance of Muleshoe Texas, you need to take a look at the flocks; hundreds of thousands of birds.  I can only imagine what all those birds do to farmers' fields...

Leofwynn

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Redaction? Definitions and commentary
(Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius)
2. Re: Redaction? (was: Looking for a period cheese filled
pasta/lassagna dish served cold (long))
(Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius)
3. Re: redaction help (Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius)
4. Re: Re: Peacocks (johnna holloway)
5. Looking for some NY Contacts as well as an item or two...
(kattratt)
6. Re: Looking for some NY Contacts as well as an item ortwo...
(Phlip)
7. Re: yellow carrots (Terry Decker)
8. Re: Re: Peacock & Swan (Stefan li Rous)
9. Re: redaction help (jenne at fiedlerfamily.net)
10. Re: redaction help (david friedman)
11. Re: Looking for some NY Contacts as well as an item or two...
(margali)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:08:32 -0400
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Redaction? Definitions and commentary
To: Cooks within the SCA 
Message-ID: 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Also sprach Phlip:
>Adaptation has the implication of deliberately making changes to the recipe
>(more salt and sugar, for "modern" tastes, maybe?)

Certainly adaptation is change. But are we changing the dish or the 
recipe? Certainly the intent is the latter, and the former, in 
theory, is what we're _not_ after.

So I have no problem with "adaptation". If you look at recipes in 
cookbooks that come from famous chefs, often there'll be a little 
fine-print credit saying "adapted by" so-and-so; what that means is 
that the 60-serving recipe meant to be cooked in the convection oven 
has been altered to produce a dish similar to that chef's signature 
dish, but which can easily be prepared at home for 4 people. Whether 
that constitutes changing the actual dish, substantially, is open to 
debate.

Adamantius

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:12:03 -0400
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Redaction? (was: Looking for a period cheese
filled pasta/lassagna dish served cold (long))
To: mirhaxa at morktorn.com, Cooks within the SCA

Message-ID: 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Also sprach Linda Peterson:
> > Since we've had this discussion before, I might as well toss my two
>> cents in again. I don't like it either. To me, its usage is
>> pretentious and unnecessary, especially when there are other words
>> whose accepted definitions in English are much closer to what we mean
>> when SCAdians use that word than that word itself. It's just
>> somebody's (actually, I know whose) silly idea of exclusivist jargon.
>
>What are your preferred terms, Adamantius?

I tend to alternate, slightly arbitrarily, between "adaptation", 
"interpretation", and "re-working". The last was probably stolen from 
Cariadoc, with his "worked-out versions".

Yes, their meanings differ slightly, but they're all better than an 
unnecessarily high-falutin' term for "edit".

Adamantius

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:15:01 -0400
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] redaction help
To: Cooks within the SCA 
Message-ID: 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Also sprach Bronwynmgn at aol.com:
>In a message dated 9/16/2003 4:01:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>jenne at fiedlerfamily.net writes:
>
>> A Jewish Dish of Chicken
>>
>> Clean the chicken and pound its entrails with almonds, breadcrumbs, a
>> little flour, salt, fennel, and cut cilantro; beat it with six eggs and
>> the amount of four pounds [?] of water. Then put the chicken over the
>> fire a little and place it in a clean pot with five spoonfuls of sweet
>> oil, and do not stop stirring it over the fire in the oil until it is
>> lightly browned. Then make a mash of the stuffing prepared earlier and
>> leave it until it is bound together and thickened. Pour it out and put
>> it around the stuffing, adorn with cut rue and fennel, buds of mint,
>> and minced almonds, and present it, God willing.
>>
>
>I wonder if this is the one Katya in Blak Rose did for an event last year - I
>think it was from Drizzle of Honey. She (well, I, really, on her
>instructions) actually molded the "stuffing" around the outside of 
>precooked boneless
>breasts and then baked them, if I remember correctly.
>It was a bear getting them done, as the stuff didn't want to stick, but it
>was darn tasty. Your way sounds easier, and just as tasty.

I'd bet on the Anonymous Andalusian Cookbook. If it were from A 
Drizzle of Honey, why identify it as a Jewish dish?

Adamantius

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:20:02 -0400
From: johnna holloway 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Peacocks
To: Cooks within the SCA 
Message-ID: <3F67B6C2.8000007 at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Thanks for all the information.
This is one for the files.

Johnnae llyn Lewis

Lora Weems.Leofwynn atte Gos wrote:snipped

> Hi guys, here I am back again!
> 
> On or about the 15th, there was a thread about serving and eating Peacocks at a feast. I have raised peacocks for several years, and my husband has raised them for even longer. I want to put out to the list the following information, from a husbandry standpoint:

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:46:28 -0400
From: kattratt 
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Looking for some NY Contacts as well as an item
or two...
To: Cooks List 
Message-ID: <3F67BCF4.6010401 at charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Ok folks I have a transplanted friend who is in Fulton NY (North of 
Syracuse). She is looking for two things...
(One is actually cooking related...)
1st I need the Rapier contact for that Area. 
2nd Down here we have a realy nifty stuffed Olive product. It is Garlic 
Stuffed Olives. Any idea where to get those up there? They are great 
for Dirty Martinis. (See sort of cooking related...)

Anyways I appreciate the help Thanks in advance...
Nichola

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:03:27 -0400
From: "Phlip" 

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for some NY Contacts as well as an
item ortwo...
To: "Cooks within the SCA" 
Message-ID: <02c201c37cbf$e382be20$6500a8c0 at phlip>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Ene bichizh ogsen baina shuu...

> Ok folks I have a transplanted friend who is in Fulton NY (North of
> Syracuse). She is looking for two things...
> (One is actually cooking related...)
> 1st I need the Rapier contact for that Area.
> 2nd Down here we have a realy nifty stuffed Olive product. It is Garlic
> Stuffed Olives. Any idea where to get those up there? They are great
> for Dirty Martinis. (See sort of cooking related...)
>
> Anyways I appreciate the help Thanks in advance...
> Nichola

Can direct her to a friend of mine up that way from my Metalsmithing List.
She's planning an event shortly- she ought to be able to get her in contact
with people. Email me privately with her information.

Saint Phlip,
CoDoLDS

"When in doubt, heat it up and hit it with a hammer."
Blacksmith's credo.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably not a
cat.

Never a horse that cain't be rode,
And never a rider who cain't be throwed....

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:12:57 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] yellow carrots
To: "Cooks within the SCA" 
Message-ID: <002c01c37cc1$36fba660$d668560c at terryd>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Just remember that these are probably all hybrids. I suspect the purple
ones will be from the bred-back variety that was produced in Texas a few
years ago. The taste and texture may not be anywhere near that of the
period varietals. However, don't let that keep you from reporting on the
experiment.

Bear

>I have seeds for red, yellow, white and purple carrots
>to plant next year. It will be an interesting taste
>test! The orange ones this year were real tasty right
>out of the ground and that was how all of them were
>eaten.
>
>Katira

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:20:14 -0500
From: Stefan li Rous 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Peacock & Swan
To: SCA-Cooks SCA-Cooks maillist 
Message-ID: <78FD4398-E8B5-11D7-AE68-000393A414D0 at austin.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Safia commented:
> Now on the other hand, I LOVE the sound of peacocks. It's one of the
> most
> beautiful sounds that I can think of. I love listening to them. It's
> almost
> magical. (Now, I also just love the smell of ferrets and horse barns!
> You be
> the judge. *grin*) I'll agree, it is kind of creepy, but it's a cool
> creepy.
Awk! Now just how close do you live to Parmer Ln and Mopac Expressway? 
Says Stefan worriedly. We're hoping to close on a house in that area in 
the next few days.

The last time I had a run-in with a peacock was when one settled in at 
my mother's house. It was really bothering her, and me after I'd been 
there for just a few hours. I tried to trap it, but over the rough 
terrain it was able to keep just out of reach. The next time I went out 
there I showed up with my period style crossbow, but he had finally 
decided to leave.

Despite attending Phlip's class on butchering a sheep, I think I would 
have done a poor job of skinning that peacock, anyway. But having a 
reuseable, tanned peacock hide and feathers was tempting...
Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas 
StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:24:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] redaction help
To: Cooks within the SCA 
Message-ID:

Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Just curious where the recipe came from. And was any mention made of kashering the chicken and especially the heart?

It's from the Anonymous Andalusian, I believe. Someone had posted 'all the
"Jewish" labelled recipes' from it, and Stefan put them in the
Florilegium.

-- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
"in verbis et in herbis, et in lapidibus sunt virtutes"
(In words, and in plants, and in stones, there is power.)

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:29:54 -0700
From: david friedman 

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] redaction help
To: Cooks within the SCA 
Message-ID: 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

>Ok, so I'm going to work on redacting this recipe:
>
>A Jewish Dish of Chicken
>
>Clean the chicken and pound its entrails with almonds, breadcrumbs, a
>little flour, salt, fennel, and cut cilantro; beat it with six eggs and
>the amount of four pounds [?] of water. Then put the chicken over the
>fire a little and place it in a clean pot with five spoonfuls of sweet
>oil, and do not stop stirring it over the fire in the oil until it is
>lightly browned. Then make a mash of the stuffing prepared earlier and
>leave it until it is bound together and thickened. Pour it out and put
>it around the stuffing, adorn with cut rue and fennel, buds of mint,
>and minced almonds, and present it, God willing.

What source are you going from? The Perry translation has two recipes 
with ths title. The one close to what you are quoting is:
---
A Jewish Dish of Chicken

Clean the chicken and pound its entrails with almonds, breadcrumbs, a 
little flour, salt, and cut-up fennel and cilantro. Beat it with six 
eggs and the amount of a quarter ratl of water. Then expose the 
chicken over the fire a little and place it in a clean pot with five 
spoonfuls of fresh oil, and do not stop turning it on the fire in the 
oil until it is well browned. Then cover the contents of the pot with 
stuffing prepared earlier and leave it until it is bound together and 
wrinkled. Ladle it out and put the stuffing around it, garnish with 
cut rue and fennel, eyes of mint, and toasted almonds, and present 
it, God willing.
---

There is also:
---
A Jewish Dish of Chicken

Clean the chicken and take out its entrails, cut off the extremities 
of its thighs and wings and the neck, and salt the chicken and leave 
it. Take these extremities and the neck and the entrails, and put 
them in a pot with fine spices and all the flavorings and cilantro 
juice, onion juice, whole pine-nuts, a little vinegar and a little 
murri, good oil, citron leaves, and stalks of fennel. Put this over a 
moderate fire and when it is done and the greater part of the sauce 
has gone, cover the contents of the pot with three eggs, grated 
breadcrumbs and fine flour, crush the liver, add it to this crust and 
cook carefully until the liver and the crust are cooked and wrinkled. 
Then take the chicken and roast it carefully, and strike it with two 
eggs, oil and murri, and do not stop greasing [basting] the chicken 
inside and out with this until it is browned and roasted. Then take a 
second little pot and put in two spoonfuls of oil and half a spoonful 
of murri, half a spoonful of vinegar and two spoons of aromatic 
rosewater, onion juice, spices and flavorings. Put this on the fire 
so that it cooks gently, and when it has cooked, cut up ...[about two 
words missing]... and leave it until it is absorbed. Then ladle it 
into a dish [and pour the rest of the sauce on it, and cut up an egg 
and sprinkle with spices, and ladle the preceding almonds into 
another dish], and garnish it too with eggyolks; sprinkle it with 
fine spices and present both dishes, God willing.

[Bracketed matter in Arabic but not in Huici Miranda's translation.]
---
Is this your translation from Huici Miranda, or the retranslation 
from Huici Miranda done by several people that I was distributing 
before I got Perry to redo it from the Arabic, or ... ?

The Perry translation is webbed at:

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Andalusian/andalusian_contents.htm

-- 
David/Cariadoc
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References: 

Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:38:26 -0700
To: Cooks within the SCA 
From: david friedman 

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] redaction help
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> > Just curious where the recipe came from. And was any mention made 
>of kashering the chicken and especially the heart?
>
>It's from the Anonymous Andalusian, I believe. Someone had posted 'all the
>"Jewish" labelled recipes' from it, and Stefan put them in the
>Florilegium.

That probably explains it. The version you gave must be from the 
English translation of the Spanish translation that I included in 
early versions of my cookbook collection. The whole Perry translation 
is webbed on my site, and considerably more reliable.
-- 
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:05:25 -0400
From: margali 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for some NY Contacts as well as an
item or two...
To: Cooks within the SCA 
Message-ID: <3F67DD85.50508 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

roflmao Fulton, a City with a future.
margali
a sort of local in joke.

kattratt wrote:

> Ok folks I have a transplanted friend who is in Fulton NY (North of 
> Syracuse). She is looking for two things...

------------------------------

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End of Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 4, Issue 59
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If it's Tourist Season, why can't you shoot them?

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