[Sca-cooks] Circles (was Period gifts in jars + question)
Martin G. Diehl
mdiehl at nac.net
Sat Nov 27 16:27:47 PST 2004
Chris Stanifer wrote:
>
> --- "Martin G. Diehl" <mdiehl at nac.net> wrote:
> > Yes, the work could have been done over some period of
> > time. With that assumption, we have to wonder how the
> > project was planned and continued to work toward that
> > goal over a time span of 50 to 500 years.
> >
> > The way I see it, the effort to complete those sites
> > remains an enormous puzzle no matter how we look at it.
>
> If crews of 1000 men worked 12 hour days, that's 12000
> man hours per day, times 7 days equals 84,400 man hours
> per week. 350,000 man hours divided by 84,400 gives us
> just about one month's worth of work. Certainly 1000
> good, strong men could have been spared from the field
> to construct this monument, and a 12 hour day would
> probably seem like a vacation to them. Even at only
> 500 workers, they could have gotten it done in 2 months.
>
> I'm thinking the estimate of 'man hours' is probably not
> accurate...or it just didn't take that long to build.
>
> Wm de Grandfort
Thanks for your response. It served the good purpose of
getting me do additional research -- lots of fun, too.
Some other points to consider at the estimated time of
constructing those sites ...
(1) Metallurgy ...
At the time of erecting those 2 sites, they probably had
only stone and antler tools.
Copper might have been known at that time -- but copper
alone is not strong enough to be any help.
Copper hardened by arsenic is later -- associated with the
Bell Beaker period -- ca. 2500 to 2000 BC.
Bronze (copper 90% and tin 10%) almost certainly not known
or generally used until ca. 2000 to 1800 BC.
Iron smelting was not known until ca. 1500 BC -- rather
recent, don't you think?
(2) Lifting tools ...
The actual tools are unknown; e.g. use of "Block and Tackle"
is very unlikely at that time.
Probable method was to dig a hole that was deep enough for
stability, shaped to the base of the standing stone, and
with a slanted trench from the side of the hole toward the
recumbent stone. By drawing on it with ropes, it would
slide toward the hole and then tip into an upright position.
Packing stones would have ben placed about the base for
stability and then back filled with soil.
The necessary horizontal force that must be supplied is at
least 20% of the stone's deadweight. As a safety issue,
you need additional ropes and workers to ensure that it
could not shift to either side or overbalance toward the
main body of workers.
(3) Transportation ...
In the worst case scenario, they would have had to drag the
stones from where they occurred naturally -- the stones used
for the Stones of Stenness and Ring of Brodgar could have
come from a site near the Ring of Bookan or possibly 6 miles
away from Vestra Fiold.
(4) Food gathering ...
While working, I think some time might have been related to
food gathering -- even without that being a primary activity.
(5) Work time ...
12 hours per day seems a bit long -- using stone tools to
break bedrock during dawn, twilight, fog, or rain would
produce far more broken fingers that broken rocks.
(6) Population ...
In Burl, Aubrey; "A Guide to the Stone Circles of Britain,
...", the author proposes a methodology to estimate the
population associated with a neolithic site.
The upper population bound could be estimated by the number
of people who could be comfortably accommodated within the
stone ring.
The lower population bound could be estimated by the number
of workers needed to erect the largest (heaviest) stone at
the site.
For The Ring of Brodgar, that could have been as many as
3,000 within the ring -- but allowing for ceremony, perhaps
only 1,500. Of that population perhaps only 20% (300) by
virtue of age and health could have worked on the heavy
construction. A team of at least 50 workers would have
been needed to erect the largest stones.
You should see the web page, "Rethinking the great stone
circles of Northwest Britain" (nearly the last web page I
found for this topic) -- The author notes some of the same
issues you raised about construction time and also notes a
very different interpretation of the construction process.
He even suggests that the quarrying and transportation
activity was the 'celebration', " ... it may have been the
actual acts of construction that provided the main social
focus. ... Just imagine the gathering of hundreds of
people to both watch and participate in the dragging of a
massive single stone."
Research issues and digressions used in this response ...
Richards, Colin; "Rethinking the great stone circles of
Northwest Britain";
http://www.orkneydigs.org.uk/dhl/papers/cr/
17 papers are listed
http://www.orkneydigs.org.uk/dhl/papers/index.html
"Orkney Archaeological Trust"
http://www.orkneydigs.org.uk/
I tried to create a metallurgy timeline for this response,
but the information I saw on various websites disagreed
among themselves by about 1,000 years.
I really want to have a book reference on this topic!
Fire, Ceramics, and Metallurgy are all contributors to
each other's advancement.
OTOH, "Ötzi, the glacier man" (today's unexpected find) --
http://www.angelfire.com/me/ij/oetzie.html
About halfway down the Ötzi web page, note how the leather
'pants' or 'leggins' are attached by cords. Similar to
the leggings worn under tunics in the Middle Ages which
eventually became hose and codpiece.
See "A brief history of that most delectable of subjects:
codpieces"
http://www.renaissancedancewear.com/codpieces.html
(ob clothing reference -- at least it's on topic for the
SCA and only slightly off topic for this list -- i.e. not
about food).
If you want to read about "Ötzi, the glacier man" in book
form that would be Spindler, Konrad; "The Man in the Ice:
The Discovery of a 5,000-Year-Old Body Reveals the Secrets
of the Stone Age"
Thanks so very much for taking the effort to go through
and read all of this to reach the point where I stop. <g>
Vincenzo
--
Martin G. Diehl
http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=MGD
Reality: That which remains after you stop thinking about it.
inspired by P. K. Dick
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