On a slightly different tangent, I was surprised to find that
there was a system set up in the guilds to take care of widows.
One of the streets I saw, I think in Hamburg, was a series of
houses that were used for the widows of a certain type of guild. I
kept meaning to go back and get more information on it because I
think that was the pre-cursor for social security ~grin~. Has
anyone else heard of this? I always thought that widows were left
to fend for themselves until this tour.
Ysabeau
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: el2iot2 at mail.com
Reply-To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:03:58 -0600
>Ah, but you see. you have made my point.
>
>Living in sin, did happen. And Handfasting was far less costly,
though maybe not condoned by the church.
>
>The youngest son of a poor family may be more inclined to move to
Mother-in-Laws house as a Way to inherit.
>
>Orphanages, even in period did place children with Family if they
could. but the child of a poor family with no inheritance would
not likely be welcomed by more distant<blood> relations, unless
they had some value as labor or else. Are always orphans of only
child surviving, with no other relatives. There were the
equivalent of "Orphan Trains" even in period. Farm labour was
always in demand, and "street urchins"<begger children living on
the streets> are mentioned in Shakespeare.
>
>The Church<Orphanage or Pristhood> or find someone to take you
in, or live on the street. Happened then, happens now.
>
>and an extra set of hands in the garden or even with chores frees
up time for those able to make money. gardening done by the
helper give the daughters time to take in laundry, or other work
for profit. or an extra set of hands in the garden can increase
your yeild and you can then trade for what you do not have, or
sell at the town market day, or even from the yard itself. Just
because no-one has any money does not mean they can not improve
thier quality of life, Barter is as old as time. and still
lives.
>
>Even in a fudal system, there are lower and middle class.
although middle class tended to be merchants. The mideaivel mind
is still a human mind and we all have similar thought
patterns<whether 100,000 years ago or next week>. Tech changes,
government forms change, education changes, but the human mind is
still the same.
>
>The Mayflower refugees<although out of period, it is close enough
to show my point>, were not nobles. nor were they very wealthy.
yet the cost of passage and minimum supplies was about $3000 per
person by modern standards<I may have the number off a bit<working
from memory>.
>
>Giles Rickard who followed his daughter over a few years later<
1648 I think, again memory><My family, so I have researched this>
was a man of some means, but not wealthy. Yet he brought himself,
judith(his wife), 2 sons, 1 daughter, 1 maid and a boy. niether
the maid nor the boy were related to him.
>
>you see my point. Did Happen, does Happen. if happened in 17th
century, probably had something of a similar kind earlier, change
was much slower then.
>
>the modern world is different, but not THAT different. slavery
and indentures are both pre-roman to Modern, and remained in
practice well into the 19th century<slavery until 1850's, westward
bound orphan trains run at this time also>.
>
>to many similar things close to period, and pre-period to believe
that nothing like this happened during period.
>
>again, just my 2 cents
>
>Joy
>Radei
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lonnie D. Harvel" <ldh at ece.gatech.edu>
>To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
>Subject: Re: poor widow was:[Sca-cooks] Rotten meat and spices...
>Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:28:34 -0400
>
>>
>> Laura C. Minnick wrote:
>>
>> > Perhaps you misunderstood me. There is more to marriage then
than
>> > there often is now. When we say that a medieval girl didn't
have
>> > enough money to marry, it isn't just dowry. There is a fee
called
>> > merchet, that must be paid to the lord when a peasant woman
>> > marries. If she marries a man from another area, the couple
must
>> > come up with yet more money, to pay a fee called foremariage
>> > (essentially a payment to the woman's lord, as compensation
for
>> > the loss of her labor when she moves to her husband's
village).
>>
>> Don't forget the price paid to the priest for the marriage
ceremony
>> and such. Without paying the priest, you weren't married. Here
is a
>> celtic Psalm from the period:
>>
>> <>A wedding is a costly business.
>> Money is needed for the priest
>> and his clerk.
>> Money is needed for the hire
>> of the church
>> Money is needed to feed the guests.
>> Money is needed for robes to wear.
>> Love by contrast is entirely free.
>> Free are the smiles that play
>> on the lips;
>> Free are the kisses stolen
>> by moonlight;
>> Free are the words whispered
>> at midnight
>> Free are the strolls hand in hand
>> through the wood.
>> We are rich in love but poor in money.
>> The priests say our union is sinful.
>> May god, who blesses us, forgive.
>>
>>
>> Pax,
>> Aoghann
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sca-cooks mailing list
>> Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>> http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
>
>
>
>joy
>
>--
>___________________________________________________________
>Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
>http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sca-cooks mailing list
>Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
>http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/sca-cooks
>
________________________________________________________________
Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net