[Sca-cooks] The rotten meat thread

Mon Apr 18 17:40:29 PDT 2005

First, please forgive my spelling.  I was never good at it, and with the meds and learning too many languages it has not improved.

I have a basic knowledge of Biochemistry and medicine.  Did finish pre-med with the intention of further study in the medical field.  But as my health failed I realised that it would be a waste of time and resources for me to presue it futher. better to leave the space open for someone with a future.

Poisin such as heavy metals are cumlulative.  But most bacterial poisins are less likely to be so.

My health is not good.  No it is not a result of my eating habits, but of Genetics.  I suffer 3 forms of arthritis, fibromyalgia, Chronic fatique syndrome, depression resulting from long term pain<I have been in pain since puberty>, stomach/digustion problems caused by the meds, and chronic insomnia.  I lived with a congestive heart failure patient<conginital defect> for 18 years, he was also on this diet.  He lived 12 years longer than the doctors believed possible<died 1.5 years ago at age 56, 10 years longer than his father who had the same illness>.  for the last 5 year his overall health was improving.  practical experience that something was doing well.  even an increase in heart function, which is not technically supposted to be possible.

As to my source for the aging of meat.  I have an uncle who worked for Hormel meat pack plant in fremont Nebraska from 1945-1980, his knowledge is first hand.  and a modern butcher can tell you what modern ageing time is. I hung my goats in a cool winter shed<oklahoma cool, about 35-50 day/night> for about 2 weeks.  was much better after the ageing. even the friut and vegitable are often 10-12 months old before they hit market<again, personal experience>.

I have working in the food industry for many years<Denver, Phx, L.A.>.  everything from hash houses to 2 star kitchens, produce docks to drygoods warehouses to freezer warehouses.  Trust me, if you knew how much of the food you eat is not handled correctly you would not eat most things.  Oh lord the things I have seen.

your defination of "koshering" is not entirely correct.  Kosher slaughter requires the animal to be strung up living and have it's throat cut so that the blood may run out, thereby removeing many of the poisins that would gather in the meats of an animal that did not bleed to death.  The use of salted brine is a mock koshering technique often used to lenghten the life of meats.  Ask any Rabbi if you have question about keeping kosher.  Although I am not a Talmutic scholar, nor am I of jewish birth, I have been exposed to many things<including helping 2 jewish boys prepare for thier Bah Mitzva's>.  

And Yes, I am trying to make off meat taste better.  Why would I want to incoursage a flavour that is unappealing.  point is, if I do it, and many people I know do as well, then it is not a rare happening.

and I have been poor enough that I had no choice but to eat things that were very off.  If you are hungry enough you will eat anything.

Take a look at Inuit culture.  Many of them feel the maggoty rotten meat is the finest part.  Much historical evidance for this.

Just my 2 cents.  Way too much information, I know.  but you did ask.

Joy
Radei

----- Original Message -----
From: Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] The rotten meat thread
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:29:56 -0400

> 
> 
> Ene bichizh ogsen baina shuu...
> 
> > If one is accoustome to eating rotten meat, it does not make one violently
> ill. If you self administer a small dose of poisin on a regular basis you
> build up a tolerance for it.  Such that a normally lithel dose will be just
> upsetting to ones system.  this was done, though rarely in Victoria times,
> by those concerned with such thing.
> 
> This can be the case, however, with spoiled meat, there's a lot going on.
> Part of it involves the bacteria spoiling the meat, and part of it involves
> the toxins produced by those bacteria. I'm currently looking for more
> information on those processes, in order to present a coherent statement on
> the matter. I would point out to you that some poisons are cumulative, and
> the more you get of them, even if the extra is in progressively smaller
> doses, the sicker you get.
> 
> > I often eat chicken that is off tasting, I really prefer it that way.  I
> meerly take the offening meat, soak it in a salt brine at room tempature for
> 1-2 hours, then in clear water at room tempature for about 1 more hour and
> cook as if it were right from the store.
> 
> You're doing more than you realize here. In the first place you're soaking
> it in a brine. That has the effect of romoving off flavors and blood from
> the meat- the technique is also known as "koshering" since that's how people
> keeping kosher prepare their meat.
> 
> The reason _I_ use the same technique is because I have been in a poultry
> butchering plant (and I don't suggest a visit for those of you even mildly
> squeamish- it put me off my feed for a few days, and I'm not noticeably
> squeamish.) and seen what happens. What you're doing is removing the mess of
> half-stewed feathers, bacteria, and chicken feces that are absorbed by the
> meat in the processing. You follow up with another bath of cool water which
> them removes the salt that the first process put into the meat. You're
> actually doing everything you can to _remove_ off flavors, rather than
> encouraging it to taste off.
> 
> > I have never become ill from food that I have cooked.  I have worked in
> greasy spoons that served thing regularly that were too off for me to even
> what to think of trying, but the regular patrons did not have any problems.
> 
> If what you're saying is true, then there's no reason you, or anyone else
> should become ill, with your cooking. As far as that goes, there's a fairly
> wide range available that average, healthy people can tolerate. A less
> healthy person, however, such as a child or an elderly person, or people
> with certain medical conditions might become very ill indeed.
> 
> > Modern beef is aged only 6-30 days before sale.  pre-1950 beef was aged 90
> days or longer.
> 
> References, please? And, pre-1950 may have been a long time ago, but that's
> NOT the Middle Ages, for all that those of us born then may be middle-aged
> ;-)
> 
> > You could not buy fresh beef. granted it is aged in controlled
> environments, but it is still not slaughterhouse fresh. I was raised in a
> small town in Nebraska, the only industry in town was the Hormel meat
> packing plant.  My parents and grandparents would not buy meat that had not
> been aged at least 90 days.  and I still keep beef in my refidgerator for 2+
> weeks before cooking it<except maybe ground beef, or I do not plan in
> advance for a steak>. not very tasty if I have to cook it too soon.
> 
> Again, that's you, and I'd be interested in the temperature at which the
> meat is kept. I've hung venison anywhere from a week to a month, depending
> on the temperature.
> 
> > On the farm, it could take more than 2 months to process some meats before
> they were ready for the smokehouse.  the brineing was done in large barrels
> in a cool celler, but at far from modern safe tempatures.  I still have the
> family reciept for corning beef.  makes 1/2 cow, approx 500 lbs, or 1 whole
> pig.  first ingredient is 50 lbs of salt.
> >
> 
> Again, salting it or cooling it has a distinct effect on the bacteria, and
> it's the bacteria which cause the rotting of meat. Would you smoke or eat a
> dead cow that had been lying out in the fields for a couple months? I rather
> doubt it.
> 
> > City folk have different ideas, I am sure many are thinking I am dangerous
> or an idiot, or both.  Maybe, but I am a live idiot.  and if I get food
> poisining I am less likely to die from it.  "That which does not kill us,
> makes us strong".
> >
> > Joy
> > Radei
> 
> Among all the people on this List who have been contributing to this thread,
> trust me, Mordonna, and I, among others, are NOT city folk ;-)
> 
> Saint Phlip,
> CoD
> 
> "When in doubt, heat it up and hit it with a hammer."
>   Blacksmith's credo.
> 
>   If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably not a
> cat.
> 
> Never a horse that cain't be rode,
> And never a rider who cain't be throwed....
> 
> 
> 
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joy

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