[Sca-cooks] RE: Cannibalism , ritualistic or otherwise

[el2iot2 at mail.com]

I know it is controversial, but I suppost my position. I have studied extensively on the topic, and am ordained clergy.

so, if you disagree or even if you agree, I will debate religious doctrine with anyone who so wishes.  But not here. Personal conversation, off=line is always welcome.  

Joy
Radei 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] RE: Cannibalism , ritualistic or otherwise
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:15:26 -0400

> 
> Also sprach <kingstaste at mindspring.com>:
> > Ana wrote:
> >>  Ana
> >>  PS: And the Eucharisty is a good example or ritual cannibalism.
> >
> > to which Huette responded quite strongly:
> >> I am sorry, but you are very, very, very WRONG!!!! The Eucharist is NOT
> > ritual cannibalism!!!
> >> Huette
> >
> > 	Well, I had to think long and hard about responding to this one.  I take it
> > from Huette's response that she is a Christian of strong belief.  I
> > generally shy away from getting into religious conversations because that
> > way lies madness (and usually hurt feelings).  My initial reaction was "but
> > it is", and then thought that if that was all I said it would be fanning
> > those flames and it would turn into a shouting match really quickly.  I had
> > to stop and consider if it was really food related, and I think it is.  That
> > original communion took place at a supper, where there was actual food
> > present, or at least that is the accepted story now.  Having studied a bit
> > about religious origins and knowing how things get changed around, I suspect
> > there are many other interpretations of what actually happened.  I suspect
> > the symbology goes back to the examples Phlip stated and the ideals of
> > passing strength (and holiness) along with the consumption of various
> > aspects of the godhead.  This certainly seems to be what is happening in the
> > modern celebration of communion.  However, if the arugment is that this
> > ceremony is not ritual cannibalism, then there is some other reason for
> > taking in wine and bread and considering it a holy act.  The holiness is
> > passed along into the act of sharing the food.
> > 	So, I am interested in hearing thoughts on the original event, the
> > symbology behind it, how the idea of breaking bread at a communal table fits
> > into it, and other food-related aspects of the question.  However, I do hope
> > that it can be kept from becoming a religious flame war, as nothing will
> > come of that in the furtherance of understanding eating practices and the
> > reasons they figure strongly into spiritual observances.   Let's keep it
> > civil, shall we, and try to examine this question in a way that we can all
> > learn something?
> 
> It should be noted that I'm probably a heretic, but here goes anyway.
> 
> My feeling is that the cannibalism aspect is of secondary 
> importance to the sacrificial aspect. I'm not troubled by a lack of 
> faith in such mysterious phenomena as Transubstantiation because I 
> don't consider the question relevant: I don't _need_ to believe 
> that that bread and wine are flesh and blood to believe that good 
> is stronger than evil, that love is stronger than death, and that 
> sacrifice under the right circumstances can expiate sin.
> 
> The Liturgies of the Word and of the Eucharist are full of 
> references to the Lamb of God, to the Paschal Sacrifice given to 
> humanity to return to God in atonement for sin. The Eucharist 
> liturgy also refers to eating the flesh and blood of Christ, or, 
> rather, to Jesus referring to the bread and wine as his body and 
> blood (presumably knowing full well he was to be the centerpiece of 
> a human sacrifice). He points out that these are given freely for 
> the salvation of humankind, and tells his disciples to commemorate 
> the sacrifice in his name. He doesn't exactly say, "Eat human flesh 
> and drink blood on Sundays," or even, unequivocally, that 
> subsequent celebrations of the Eucharist have to involve 
> consecration and transubstantiation. These are aspects introduced 
> by literal-minded popes and theologians, I assume.
> 
> As Phlip said, there's also an aspect of sharing in the divinity of 
> the sacrifice akin to some cultures' view of cannibalism. But 
> without that sacrifice, the rest doesn't follow: Jesus is the 
> sacrificial offering, and the disciples, and later, the church, are 
> there to share in and commemorate the sacrifice.
> 
> Hey, did anybody eat Aslan??? Huh? Argue me that one! ;-)
> 
> Adamantius
> -- "S'ils n'ont pas de pain, vous fait-on dire, qu'ils  mangent de 
> la brioche!" / "If there's no bread to be had, one has to say, let 
> them eat cake!"
> 	-- attributed to an unnamed noblewoman by Jean-Jacques Rousseau, 
> "Confessions", 1782
> 
> "Why don't they get new jobs if they're unhappy -- or go on Prozac?"
> 	-- Susan Sheybani, assistant to Bush campaign spokesman Terry Holt, 07/29/04
> 
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joy

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