[Sca-cooks] Re: Coffyns

[Daniel Myers]

On Feb 20, 2005, at 2:17 AM, Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:

> Stefan, can you tell us more about your reasoning in reaching this 
> conclusion? I'm not sure I buy the rectangular pie coffin idea: there 
> are illustrations of what appear to be pies in various manuscripts, 
> and they seem to me to mostly round or elliptical.

I agree that the majority of pictures I've seen are exactly as you saw. 
  However, I vaguely recall seeing a primary source that described 
making a rectangular pie (I remember because it surprised me at the 
time), but I can't find the reference at this time.  I'll keep looking.

> As for the thickness required to make an eight-inch high side which 
> will remain standing, there are some things that we need to consider. 
> I'm not sure if eight inches in height is a reasonable expectation 
> (maybe there's some textual reference I'm not familiar with, but apart 
> from the various English recipes for pies in the shape of Towers, 
> eight inches sounds a little high, when most specific recipe 
> instructions that refer to height tend to call for one, or in some 
> cases two, inches in height for tarts).

Mind you, these paintings may not be to scale, but relative to the size 
of the hands of the people nearby I'd guess that the standing pies are 
about 4 or 5 inches tall.

	Les festins, Roman de Lancelot en prose, France (15th c.)
	http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/131.htm

  	La succession des plats, Grandes Heures d'Anne de Bretagne (late 15th 
c.)
	http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/130.htm

As long as there's some kind of support during the baking process, the 
crust of a free-standing pie can easily be eight inches high and still 
be 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick.  Without such support though they (at least 
the ones I've made) tend to warp and deform.

The bowl I made for the "dish of artichokes" was a crust that was blind 
baked upside-down, using a handy kitchen bowl as a form (the crust was 
on the *outside* of the bowl).  [logical warning: "slippery slope" 
reasoning follows] While I have absolutely no documentation that this 
was ever done in period, it's such an obvious solution that I'm 
reluctant to say it wasn't done.

	A Dishe of Artechokes
	http://www.medievalcookery.com/images/artechokes.jpg

- Doc


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  Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
  Pasciunt, mugiunt, confidiunt.
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