[Sca-cooks] the lemon controversy!

[Laura C. Minnick]

While looking for stuff on grene grapes, I found the cache of messages 
about the lemon question that came up months ago! So here is the word on 
lemons from a bunch of professors who were avoiding grading papers... :-)

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Here's the quotation display for the entry 'limon.' I hope the
formatting works out.

(1420-21) in Gras Eng.Cust.Syst.  514:  i cista iiic
lymonz.  ?a1425(c1400) Mandev.(1) (Tit C.16)   131/35:  For the
vermyn þat is withjnne, þei anoynte here armes & here thyes &
legges with an oynement made of a þing þat is clept Lymons, þat is,
a manere of fruyt lych smale pesen [F lymons, cest vn manere de
fruit come pesches petites].  ?a1425 Mandev.(2) (Eg 1982)
84/15:  Ane oynement made of þe iuys of a fruyte þat þai call
lymons.  ?a1425 *Chauliac(1) (NY 12)   27a/a:  Pomegranates,
orenges, lymonez [L limones], & al acetous ar for hym.  ?c1425
*Chauliac(2) (Paris angl.25)   156a/b:  Many men putte þerto in
somer þe Iuse of lymons or of orenges.  ?1435(1432) Lydg. Hen.VI
Entry (Jul B.2)   353:  Ther were eke treen with leves ffressh off
hewe..ffulle off ffruytes lade..Orenges, almondis, and the
pome-gernade, Lymons, dates, theire colours ffressh and glade.

the abbreviated titles are, in order of appearance:
-N. S. B. Gras, The Early English Customs System, HES 18 (1918).
-Mandeville's Travels, ed. P. Hamelius, EETS 153 (1919; reprint
1987). 1-211.
-The Buke of John Maundeuill, ed. G. F. Warner, RC 119 (1889). upper
pp.1-156.
-Translation of Guy de Chauliac's Grande Chirurgie: Microfilm print
of New York Academy of Medicine MS 12; in poss. of MED.
-The Cyrurgie of Guy de Chauliac, ed. M. S. Ogden, EETS 265 (1971).
-Lydgate on HenVI's entry into London.  The Minor Poems of John
Lydgate, ed. H. N. MacCracken, vol. 2, EETS 192 (1934; reprint
1961). 630-48
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Browsing the MED entries that mention "orange," "lemon," or "citrus" in
the definition, I find at least a few that seem to
suggest the actual presence (as opposed to theoretical knowledge) of
citrus fruit in England. The bulk of the quotations seem to point to
medicinal, rather than culinary, use. But here are four samples (the
Paston quote is curious, I think):

(1420-21) in Gras Eng.Cust.Syst.  514:  i cista iiic lymonz.
(1470) Paston   1.554:  Dame Elyzabet Calthorp is a fayir lady and
   longyth for orangys, thow she be not wyth chyld
a1525(?1457) Cov.Leet Bk.  300:  The Meyre..send vnto her..a grete
   panyer full of Pescodes and another panyer full of pipyns
   and Orynges.
?c1425 *Chauliac(2) (Paris angl.25)   118a/b:  With þe Iuse of
     citrines [F citron; L citri].

See limon (n.(1)), citrine (n.), and orange (n.), among others.
Probably equal or better results might be had from searching for
the Latin and French terms, perhaps especially in commercial
contexts, as suggested by the quot. from Gras.
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I assume, Paul, that the Paston quote refers to the desire for unusual/out 
of season foods or food combinations (e.g., pickles and ice cream) 
experienced in pregnancy (as in Mary's desire for cherries in December in 
the Cherry Tree Carol).
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Here's the earliest OED entry (for whatever that may be worth):

>   c1400 MANDEVILLE (Roxb.) xxi. 98 {Th}ai enoynt {th}am..with {th}e ius of

{th}e fruyt {th}at es called lymons.

and the MED:

limon (n.(1))

     [OF]

The fruit of the lemon tree (Citrus limon).

     (1420-21) in Gras Eng.Cust.Syst.  514:  i cista iiic lymonz.
?a1425(c1400) Mandev.(1) (Tit C.16)   131/35:  For the vermyn þat is
withjnne, þei anoynte here armes & here thyes & legges with an oynement
made of a þing þat is clept Lymons, þat is, a manere of fruyt lych smale
pesen [F lymons, cest vn manere de fruit come pesches petites].  ?a1425
Mandev.(2) (Eg 1982)   84/15:  Ane oynement made of þe iuys of a fruyte
þat þai call lymons.  ?a1425 *Chauliac(1) (NY 12)   27a/a:
Pomegranates, orenges, lymonez [L limones], & al acetous ar for hym.
?c1425 *Chauliac(2) (Paris angl.25)   156a/b:  Many men putte þerto in
somer þe Iuse of lymons or of orenges.  ?1435(1432) Lydg. Hen.VI Entry
(Jul B.2)   353:  Ther were eke treen with leves ffressh off
hewe..ffulle off ffruytes lade..Orenges, almondis, and the pome-gernade,
Lymons, dates, theire colours ffressh and glade.
_______

I thought the info was pretty interesting, though it doesn't necessarily 
clear up the question of availability and practicality of use in England. 
They do seem to be together with warm-climate things like dates and 
pomagranates- which we know were used in England. Anyone else have 
observations?

'Lainie

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"No people can be great who have ceased to be virtuous."
Samuel Johnson: An Introduction To The Political State of Great Britain