[Sca-cooks] 15th C. Ottoman Recipes

[Saint Phlip]

Paul speaking:

Perry has translated an addition 67 recipes from the Arabic and is
working up more as supplements to the Baghdadi Cookbook. These are all
the recipes I know of. As for ones in Turkish, they may exist but this
is news to me. I thought the first Turkish-language recipe collections
were much older. I will ask about this and do email Charles Perry. He
does know Ottoman Turkish, to the best of my knowledge. Paul D. Buell




On 7/2/06, lilinah at earthlink.net <lilinah at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Phlip wrote:
> >On 6/30/06, lilinah at earthlink.net <lilinah at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>  Now, frankly, i don't expect the publisher to offer me any money, but
> >>  what the heck. However, if i ask for #1, i am concerned that i may no
> >  > longer be eligible for #2.
> >
> >Asked Paul, and he said that a translation is considered an entirely
> >new work, but it's still a courtesy to ask the publisher of the work
> >translated. However, he said he also thinks that Perry translated all
> >of these recipes (he's not absolutely sure), and sees no point in a
> >translation going from Arabic to French to English, since that tends
> >to multiply errors.
>
> As i said before, these do not exist in Arabic.
>
> These are, as i said, Ottoman Turkish.
>
> And they have not yet been published in English.
>
> I suppose i can write Charles Perry and ask if he has translated
> Chirvani's additions to his Ottoman Turkish translation of
> al-Baghdadi. I know he knows a lot of languages, but i don't know if
> he knows 14th & 15th c. Turkish, which i gather is rather different
> from Modern Turkish.
>
> Now, i completely agree that a translation from the original language
> is better than a translation of a translation.
>
> My issue is that i would like to make these recipes available to
> people, such as SCAdians, who want to use them, even if in
> translation from the French. After all, Actes Sud/Sindbad/Orient
> Gourmand published David Waines' "In a Caliph's Kitchen" in French,
> so it's not a stretch to publish a translation of Stephane
> Yerasimos's "At the Sultan's Table" in English. Other than in
> Yerasimos's book, there are NO SCA-period Ottoman Turkish recipes
> available. I think a flawed translation is better than no translation
> as far as SCAdians go - if only as a stop gap until an
> English-speaking genuine scholar goes to Istanbul to work on that
> manuscript again.
>
> What i really want are all 82 recipes that Chirvani added during his
> translation, not just the selected 35 or so in Yerasimo's
> translation. The book i translated has excellent introductory matter,
> and commentary with each recipe, although it has only a selection of
> recipes from Chirvani's added recipes, which are in NO OTHER book
> except that single handwritten copy in Istanbul.
>
> Johnnae mentioned a book to me that may have them transcribed into
> the Roman alphabet, which i want to get my hands on. If that is the
> case, or even if they are translated into Modern Turkish, it's closer
> to the original than Yerasimos's French is.
>
> Guess it's time for me to write Charles Perry again.
> --
> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
> the persona formerly known as Anahita

-- 
Saint Phlip

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