[Sca-cooks] Faith and chellenges

[tom.vincent at yahoo.com]

(dammit...I wish this list and it's members were consistant in reply-to structure!  I'm so tired of typing a reply, then seeing that the reply only goes to the person instead of the list like it should and having to change it over and over and over again :( )
 
In general, I agree with your thoughts, except for your characterization of 'science' as a monolith.  'Science' describes a wide range of academic pursuits and a wide range of levels of 'fact' and 'opinion'.  It's a general process, so there is no 'hubris' in 'science' anymore than there are raisins in bread:  It is neither a necessary component nor an ever-present ingredient.
 
When Medieval 'scientists' put forth their positions, how were critics treated?  With contempt, threats, attacks, execution.  That tells you that the primitive 'scientific' process was no more than an application of faith/religion to the material world.  
 
Catholics were horrified at the idea that the earth revolved around the sun and not, as they claimed for hundreds of years, the other way around.  They threatened anyone who said otherwise.  
 
Now, however, hundreds of years after everyone else learned of the accuracy of the sun-based model, Catholics suddenly act like the earth-based model never existed or they never persecuted anyone opposed to it.  And that's just one of the more *benign* examples I could come up with.
 
You paint a picture where 'faith/religion' and 'fact/science' cheerfully skip along the road, smiling, hand-in-hand.  But every time in history -- and I mean EVERY time -- science has presented compelling evidence against a long-established religious precept, the religion works to smother science, not embrace the new knowledge and open reject their previous dogma.
 
It is *science* that questions itself, not religion.  
It is *science* that re-examines itself, not religion.
It is *science* that admits mistakes, not religion.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* 
Tom Vincent 
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* 
When shall it be said in any country of the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance or distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes not oppressive; the rational world is my friend because I am friend of its happiness; when these things can be said, then may that country boast of its constitution and government. 
-- Tom Paine 


----- Original Message ---- 
From: grizly 
To: Cooks within the SCA 
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:14:20 AM 
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Faith and chellenges 


Let's remember that science is premissed most often on laws of probablitity. Things are referred to in terms of t-tests, chi square, ANOVA, MANOVA, etc. Scientific assertions are made in terms of probability that the observed occurances happened due to chance, be it less that .05 or .005 or .001 or greater confidence levels. Laws are groups of tested and replicated hypotheses and"facts" are widely held and believed laws (IIRC). 

Let us not forget the lessons of our Medieval forebears who believe the 4 humors governed health and the world was made of 4 elements. We learned again in regards to flat/round worl and revolution status of our solar system. Hubris in the midst of seemingly observed "science" is possibly more egregious than "faith" in the midst of possibly contravening information. Both "fact" and "faith" need vigilence and wisdom to temper both and make necessary modifications as one's relationship to the subject matter changes and grows. 

Let us not protest that "science" is the penultimate of all knowledge any more than sacred writings and faith-based systems. Scentific method has gotten us quite far in society, but not without a good healthy measure of faith and spiritual convictions. One without the other lacks vision, understanding, and/or temperance. 

niccolo difrancesco