[Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 9, Issue 76

[Suey]

Terry Decker wrote:
> It might equally be argued that the recipe for hamburger originates in the 
> recipes for isicia from the Roman Empire. Forcemeat recipes are fairly common. 
My guess is that as long as man eat meat he was chopping it grinding it  
and or stewing it  the best he could due to the high rate of tooth decay 
until the 20th C. I have a very difficult time finding Spanish medieval 
recipes for roasts.
> Luis Benavides-Barajas. . .  I've read one 
> small modern piece by him translated into English and found the prose a 
> little florid.
>
> . . .in relation to the Florilegium shows that Huette 
> raised a question about the historical accuracy of his recipe for alfajores.
>   
Yes it is Luis Benavides-Barajas. I did start to read an English 
translation of one of his books but it was so bad I had to go to the 
original. I am glad to know that Huette criticized his alfajores recipe. 
I finally had to throw it out while some others really are quite good. 
Anyway it is an adventure if one tries them but I never know if they are 
authentic or modernized.

Suey wrote:
>> He calls it "Supremo de carne o hamburgesa andalusi" not
>> 'albondiga'. He does distinguish the two terms clearly in his books.
>>     
Phil Troy replied:
> Would I be close if I were to translate  the above into English as "meat supreme or Andalusian hamburger"? Since supremes tend to be without skin, bone, or any tough  
> fibers or portions (with certain notable exceptions, such as  
> chicken), I'm assuming he's referring to that aspect of finely  
> chopped or ground meat, although I can think of no other examples of  
> a supreme being ground, chopped, or even heavily pounded.  . . a hamburger tends to contain the simplest of seasonings (often nothing but salt, and possibly black pepper), and  
> is almost invariably beef. 
> 	It sounds as if Sr. Benavides-Barajas is playing fast and loose with  
> his terms here.  . . poetic license is great for poetry, but poetry is not the best way to  
> communicate when you absolutely need to be understood.
    Benavides is calling for well ground lean meat in the "Meat Supreme" 
recipe. That is in "Nueva-Clasica." In "La Alhambra" he calls one recipe 
"Supremo de Marraquech" consisting of mutton or beef, "preparacion de la 
'Asfarya'" (which he calls a 'type of hamburger')  is for mutton and "La 
carne de caza" calls for game.  The 'Asfarya' recipe is the only one 
expounding on seasonings while the others call for basics such as salt, 
pepper, garlic juice or chopped onion. His names for the recipes do 
sound a bit far fetched but then we don't know what the original recipes 
were called.
  
Phil Troy continues:

> Doesn't Huici-Miranda's  
> translation of Manuscrito Anonimo have a reputation as being riddled  
> with errors anyway?
>
>       
>   
    Perry certainly did chop apart Huici Miranda's translation. I find 
Perry very helpful when I have doubts with Huici's text but when working 
with the recipes I like reading both versions.
    It is interesting to note in this manuscript Perry does not call 
'Ahras/'Ahrash' hamburgers but "patties". Huici just says they are 'like 
meatballs'. Patty in Spanish is empanadilla which is a different ball 
game. Perhaps the translation from Arabic to Spanish put Benavides on 
the spot and he took the lazy way out by using the modern word.
    I guess that brings us back to the point? Who invented the 
hamburger? The cave men or New Havenites? (Mind you my mother was born 
and raised there!)
Susan