[Sca-cooks] Translations

[Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius]

On May 2, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Suey wrote:

> I have never heard of Godefroy

Was Emilio's post containing a link to Godefroy's medieval French  
dictionary not what set this tangential discussion on translations  
off? Surely following that thread for long enough to determine that it  
involved reading some significant passage in French, was what prompted  
your complaint, or was that pure coincidence? Godefroy was the author  
of that passage.

> but I have tried Babelfish and it is a
> joke! As first it was a laugh at the stupid automated translation it
> made from Spanish into English and then it became an insult.

I'm sure that anyone inclined to interpret the actions of a machine as  
an insult will have ample opportunity, but I don't think it's very  
helpful to think that way. Sure, Babelfish has its limitations, but  
when it is used correctly, the errors can be limited. For the short  
passage regarding the selling of garlic sauce by street criers, it  
worked with no errors at all, I believe, and I didn't have to stop,  
ask somebody to translate, and wait for a response.

> Sure I have
> gone to bi-lingual dictionaries. When I have a clue of the language
> after a long time I can make some sense of somethings but not of  
> others
> and may be wrong with others. Total that is most time consuming and my
> life is not based on translating SCA messages. I have other things  
> to do.

If SCA-cooks were an accredited university setting for which I was  
paying a hefty tuition fee, I'd agree completely. It would imply some  
obligation on the part of the poster to make more effort to make sure  
their posts are understood.

And then, of course, we don't know who doesn't read French, or Latin,  
or whatever. We don't know who will skip the thread because the only  
thing that attracts them to this list is when people post recipes  
adapted for modern kitchens. Some people are basically lonely and like  
an active list as a social tool. Some people prefer to spend a lot of  
time time and effort recreating medieval food, and some think it's  
kind of silly, beyond making it _look_ medieval. Our needs vary greatly.
>
> My point is that you can that if quoting in the original language
> improves the communication fine is but I think it rude to not let  
> those
> who don't happen to speak the language have a clue as to what you are
> talking about.

I understand that; I just don't agree with it. I certainly don't  
object to people providing translations, but if they don't, for  
whatever reason, I'm a big boy. I can use a variety of tools for  
getting a translation if I need one, up to and including asking for  
one, and not feeling insulted at finding myself in that position. If  
we go in without expectations, there's no need to worry about them not  
being met ;-).

> Maybe  you are not fluent in French and I am or perhaps
> you are in German and I am not. That is not the issue, the issue is  
> not
> say to the reader - 'oh, you did not understand? Well go to an  
> automatic
> translator or a fat dictionary and figure it out, I don't have time  
> for
> you.

Well, I'm fairly certain that is not what posters of such material are  
saying, or implying. I believe that at worst, they're waiting to see  
if more than three or four people of the three hundred or so on this  
list are even following the discussion, and then they're still not  
sure who might actually want a translation. Which, you must  
understand, is sometimes a lot of effort to type in, for a passage of  
any length at all.

If, under those conditions, someone chooses to wait for me to ask, I  
can perfectly understand. If someone provides me with information,  
it's not for me to dictate my terms. They are doing me a service, and  
if I need more than that, as I say, there's no shame in asking for  
more information. If we have to anticipate everybody's needs and act  
in advance to see that they're met before posting information, very  
little of value would make it to this list, I suspect.

> - My reaction as a listener is that he who cannot explain what he
> is talking about in the common language of the group is a snob too
> pompous to condescend to our little minds or he just does not know  
> what
> he is talking about.

That is your right, and you can certainly react as you wish, but I'd  
think you, as a scholar, might come to regret dismissing potentially  
valuable data over a relatively minor issue. That would be unfortunate.

Adamantius






"Most men worry about their own bellies, and other people's souls,  
when we all ought to worry about our own souls, and other people's  
bellies."
			-- Rabbi Israel Salanter