[Sca-cooks] When does torten = pie crust?

Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius adamantius1 at verizon.net
Wed Oct 15 15:19:39 PDT 2008

On Oct 15, 2008, at 2:10 PM, Marion McNealy wrote:

> I'm working on a new redaction of Sabina Welserin's recipe #132  
> Cinnamon Tart.
> Of the redactions that I have been able to find of this recipe, all  
> of them call for it to be placed in a pie crust, yet Sabina is  
> pretty clear in the rest of her cookbook when a torten is to be  
> placed in a pie crust and when its not (see recipes below).
> So, is this just a modern cookery thing that all tart like dishes  
> must be placed in pie crusts, or is it possible that these were  
> baked just in pans without crusts like a modern cake? I have tried  
> looking up the word torten in the MHG dictionaries online, with no  
> luck. I'm curious if anyone has done a word study to see how this  
> word has changed in meaning?   I wonder if the word tart refers more  
> to how it was baked than the presence of a pie crust (see recipe  
> #136 below).

Okay, it's been a long, hard day, and I'm going to speak totally off  
the top of my head here... but that said, I have the vaguest of  
recollections of torte recipes in Rumpolt, perhaps, which seem to  
imply (but not openly state) a distinction between tortes and pies as  
tortes being cooked on/in embers, sort of like a roasted frittata or a  
Roman patina, and actual pies and tarts being baked in an oven.

Of course, the issue gets clouded somewhat, but perhaps not  
irretrievably, if there are torte recipes which call for a pastry liner.


"Most men worry about their own bellies, and other people's souls,  
when we all ought to worry about our own souls, and other people's  
			-- Rabbi Israel Salanter

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