[Sca-cooks] Thoughts on Adam Gopnik's Sweet Revolution in the New Yorker
James M. Dorsey
james.m.dorsey at gmail.com
Fri Dec 31 05:47:30 PST 2010
Thanks for pointing out earlier potential European antecedents. To be clear,
the Persian and Ottoman reference is mine not Gopnik's, who doesn't go
beyond France is his piece. You are indeed right; see also the reference in
Canterbury Tales. The interesting question that sweet-savoury combination
lives on in former parts of the Ottoman empire but the savoury bit has
vanished in the West.
-----Original Message-----
From: sca-cooks-bounces+james.m.dorsey=gmail.com at lists.ansteorra.org
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Sent: 31 December 2010 15:04
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Subject: Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 56, Issue 62
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: let's get back to business; was; knives (Antonia)
2. Re: Culinary Symposium (Carina ZLawson-Williams)
3. Thoughts on Adam Gopnik's Sweet Revolution in the New Yorker
(James M. Dorsey)
4. Re: Culinary Symposium (bronwynmgn at aol.com)
5. Re: Culinary Symposium (lcm at jeffnet.org)
6. Re: More Italian to translate? (David Friedman)
7. Re: Olwen was FW: M x u (THLord Stefan li Rous)
8. Re: Thoughts on Adam Gopnik's Sweet Revolution in the New
Yorker (Daniel Myers)
9. Lose Weight This year (Pat Griffin)
10. Lose Weight This year (Pat Griffin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 13:20:54 +1300
From: Antonia <dama.antonia at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] let's get back to business; was; knives
Message-ID: <4D1D21E6.7070602 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 31/12/2010 12:59 PM, wheezul at canby.com wrote:
> My mother's schnitzel is the meat cutlet (salted/peppered) dipped in
> egg/milk mixture and then breaded in a flour/breadcrumb mixture. It
> is then fried in clarified butter. Lemon can be a garnish. Sometimes
> we pound the meat thin for a higher crust/meat ratio.
That's pretty much how I make a schnitzel, though I often use oil rather
than butter, and I usually season, flour, egg dip, crumb.
I especially like it made from a thick slice of pork tenderloin pounded
thin. With noodles and green vegetables.
--
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo
-----------------------------
Habeo metrum - musicamque,
hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
-Georgeus Gershwinus
-----------------------------
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:44:27 -0800
From: Carina ZLawson-Williams <aurorasouthern at hotmail.com>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Culinary Symposium
Message-ID: <BAY149-w555131AEC172942FF77F70D9040 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Alys- Yes Comfits plz! And Sugar paste whoot whoot!
I will be driving up from Three mountains so.....if anyone is interested in
carpooling.....
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 04:48:35 +0400
From: "James M. Dorsey" <james.m.dorsey at gmail.com>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Thoughts on Adam Gopnik's Sweet Revolution in the
New Yorker
Message-ID:
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAP5ur97XzuNMhmAwgPdH39/CgAAAEAAAALE7hWSsSQhNvoc6cVRF
dWQBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
L.S.,
Adam Gopnik?s excellent piece on the evolution of desert and the role of
pastry chefs in culinary innovation raises interesting questions. Based on
interviews with prominent Catalan chefs who see themselves as the inheritors
of the French mantle of desert, the article explores the relationship
between savory and sweet. That exploration, however, dates much further back
in history to the Persian and then the Ottoman kitchen, with its high degree
of specialization and separate guild for pastry chefs. Sweet and savory was
not limited to deserts but played a prominent role in Persian and Ottoman
main dishes. But to stick to deserts, Europe was exposed to Ottoman playing
with sweet-savory combinations as far back as the 14th century when it
became enchanted with tavuk g?g?s (chicken breast), shredded chicken in a
sweet milk pudding. Known as blanc manger or white pudding, tavuk g?g?s
maintained its chicken content in contemporary Turkish cuisine but lost it
in Europe over the centuries.
James
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:02:36 -0500
From: bronwynmgn at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Culinary Symposium
Message-ID: <8CD769D8C2D3855-10F4-6F482 at webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<<Event details (April 15th):
http://www.antir.sca.org/Upcoming/?Event_ID=2727
>
Oh, you have no idea how much I wish I could. I have very good friends in
Portland that I would love to see. Not going to work from teh East Coast,
though.
Brangwayna Morgan
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 17:36:22 -0800
From: lcm at jeffnet.org
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Culinary Symposium
Message-ID: <56470.1293759382 at jeffnet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I
might be :-)
Liutgard, who lives on the east side of 3M On Thu 12/30/10 4:44 PM ,
Carina ZLawson-Williams aurorasouthern at hotmail.com sent:
Alys- Yes Comfits plz! And Sugar paste whoot whoot!
I will be driving up from Three mountains so.....if anyone is interested
in carpooling.....
_______________________________________________
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Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org [1]
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Links:
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 08:28:05 -0800
From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] More Italian to translate?
Message-ID: <p06240803c9426378d565@[10.0.1.18]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Is that the Epulario that was translated into English and published c. 1600?
>Has this one been translated?
>Opera noua chiamata Epulario by Giovanni de'Rosselli (1517)
>
>I've got a number of Italian texts I've found on the web that are
>either transcriptions or facsimiles, some of them have definitely been
>translated, but I'm not sure of what ones have and have not.
>
>My list can be found at
>https://sites.google.com/site/medievalcuisine/researching-medieval-cuis
>ine/online-resources/cuisines-by-region/italian-texts
>
>
> Euriol
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
>To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
>Sent: Wed, December 29, 2010 11:34:46 PM
>Subject: [Sca-cooks] More Italian to translate?
>
>Last winter my daughter translated a 15th c. Italian cookbook, now on the
web.
>It's one of a pair, but she says the other is more Latin than Italian.
>If someone who likes Latin is interested, I can send it.
>
>But she now wants to find another untranslated period Italian cookbook.
>Suggestions?
>-- David/Cariadoc
>www.daviddfriedman.com
>_______________________________________________
>Sca-cooks mailing list
>Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Sca-cooks mailing list
>Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/sca-cooks-ansteorra.org
--
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 03:09:55 -0600
From: THLord Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at AUSTIN.RR.COM>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Olwen was FW: M x u
Message-ID: <59F639F8-8076-4F23-BC8C-D50BB236B112 at AUSTIN.RR.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Johnnae clarified:
<<< Mistress Olwen is living in Denmark with her daughter. You can googl
Stefan's archives to see her instructions on how to make marzipan items.
Her hotmail account was hijacked months ago. We hear from her very
infrequently on another list. >>>
Blast! I read an article last week on a new asthma treatment that I wanted
to scan and send to her. I don't know if she would be a good candidate for
it or not, but I wanted her to know about. I only have her hotmail address.
:-( If someone does know her current email address I'd like to get it.
I've been having email problems this last couple of days so I think I missed
the original question.
For info on making and working marzipan, see this file. And yes, much of the
material in this file is from Olwen.
marzipan-msg (111K) 7/25/10 Use of marzipan (almond paste) in sotelties in
both period and the SCA. Working with marzipan.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-SWEETS/marzipan-msg.html
About-Marzipn-art (16K) 1/19/06 "About Marzipan" by Dame Alys Katharine.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-SWEETS/About-Marzipn-art.html
Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
**** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 23:12:49 -0700
From: "Daniel Myers" <dmyers at medievalcookery.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Thoughts on Adam Gopnik's Sweet Revolution in
the New Yorker
Message-ID:
<20101230231249.ed12dd0b5fcfab5c7acb3c004d380fe9.49bcdaa353.wbe at email00.secu
reserver.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
While I wouldn't deny the possibility that Europe learned to mix sweet
and savory from the Persians or Ottomans, I find the claim that it was
introduced in the 14th century with the dish of "tavuk g?g?s" to be
questionable.
There is a recipe in the "Harpestreng" cookbook (Codex Q - northern
Europe, probably pre 1300) that is clearly a similar dish and is likely
a precursor to Blancmanger.
"Recipe XXXII - One should take hen's meat from a boiled breast and chop
it small. Add almond milk to it in a pot, and a quarter as much of
sugar as there is meat, and as much lard as there is sugar, and salt.
Let it cook together on the embers, and stir it continually."
There's also a dish from De re coquinaria (Apicius, Rome ca. 400) that
involves adding honey to a chicken dish, which could conceivably be some
sort of precursor.
Does Gopnik present any strong evidence that blancmanger came from
Persia or the Ottoman empire?
- Doc
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: "James M. Dorsey" <james.m.dorsey at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, December 30, 2010 7:48 pm
>
> L.S.,
>
> Adam Gopnik?s excellent piece on the evolution of desert and the role of
> pastry chefs in culinary innovation raises interesting questions. Based on
> interviews with prominent Catalan chefs who see themselves as the
inheritors
> of the French mantle of desert, the article explores the relationship
> between savory and sweet. That exploration, however, dates much further
back
> in history to the Persian and then the Ottoman kitchen, with its high
degree
> of specialization and separate guild for pastry chefs. Sweet and savory
was
> not limited to deserts but played a prominent role in Persian and Ottoman
> main dishes. But to stick to deserts, Europe was exposed to Ottoman
playing
> with sweet-savory combinations as far back as the 14th century when it
> became enchanted with tavuk g?g?s (chicken breast), shredded chicken in a
> sweet milk pudding. Known as blanc manger or white pudding, tavuk g?g?s
> maintained its chicken content in contemporary Turkish cuisine but lost it
> in Europe over the centuries.
>
> James
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 02:54:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Pat Griffin <ldyannedubosc at yahoo.com>
To: bstinson1949 at yahoo.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lose Weight This year
Message-ID: <841194.5403.qm at web114701.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 02:54:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Pat Griffin <ldyannedubosc at yahoo.com>
To: bstinson1949 at yahoo.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Lose Weight This year
Message-ID: <841194.5403.qm at web114701.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
------------------------------
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