[Sca-cooks] More on sapa/saba

David Walddon david at vastrepast.com
Tue Jun 22 16:53:55 PDT 2010

I agree it is an ingredient.

On 6/22/10 10:14 AM, "CHARLES POTTER" <basiliusphocas at hotmail.com> wrote:

>    Treat it as an ingredient.
>          Master B
>> From: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
>> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 02:45:18 -0500
>> To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
>> Subject: [Sca-cooks] More on sapa/saba
>> We have apparently discussed sapa/saba at least once before. In looking
>> through the Florilegium, I found this following message in the grapes-msg
>> file. I will be moving it to the new sapa-msg file, though.
>> Hauviette seems to be saying that boiling the fresh wine gets you defrutum,
>> while letting it evaporate gets you sapa/saba/sabba, at least according to
>> Platina. I'm not sure that the result would be much different between boiling
>> the juice or letting it evaporate.
>> "Must" is filtered grape juice, correct? Not smushed grapes, which would also
>> include the skin and flesh and other bits.
>> Would you consider sapa/saba/sabba to be a condiment? Or an ingredient?  I'm
>> trying to decide where to put this new file in the Florilegium.
>> Thanks,
>>   Stefan
>> Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:37:55 EDT
>> From: ChannonM at aol.com
>> Subject: SC - Re: Poppa's mustard- mighty morphin cookers(daa da da, da da)
>>>  Scully says that must is grape juice that has been boiled down until
>>>  syrupy.  He uses undiluted frozen grape juice concentrate for his
>>>  redactions.  This might be a good thing to use for cooks not using
>>>  alcohol.  It was either Pliny or Cato that tossed the sealed bottles of
>>>  must into the fish pond to keep them from spoiling, which also argues
>>>  that must was not fermented.
>> Platina says on Grapes (Milham translation pg141)
>> Ex uva concocta in aheno sapa sit, ex puro et expresso musto in defrutariis
>> vasis defrutum. Mustum enim decoctum defrutum vocatur, unde et defrutare
>> mustum coqure diciums; sapa tamen defruti vice nonnumquam utimur in
>> condiendis pomis ac piris
>> "Condensed grape is made from grapes boiled down in a pot, while condensed
>> must is made from pure must which has been condensed in special defrutum
>> jars. Cooked-down must is called defrutum, from which we call to cook down
>> must defrutare, however in seasoning apples and pears we sometimes use
>> condensed grape in place of condensed must"
>> The translation "condensed must is made from pure must" leads me to believe
>> there are two different musts, one that has already been condensed, the other
>> not. In the recipe for Red mustard(according to Milham)
>> "Sinampim, passulas, sandalos, buccellas panis tostas, cinnami parum, aut
>> seorsum aut simul contertito, cvel molito. Trita cum acresta aut aceto cumque
>> modico sapae dissolvito, in patinasque per setaceum transagito. Hoc minu
>> praedicto concalefacit, ac sitim movet, nec incommode nutrit."
>> They key phrase is;
>> "Trita cum acresta aut aceto cumque modico sapae dissolvito
>> "When it is ground, soak with verjuice or vinegar and a bit of must"
>> The original recipe does not contain the word defrutum but contains the word
>> "sapae" which when doing some morphological research (sounds more impressive
>> than saying I'm looking in a dictionary ;), the word sapa (in lewis and short
>> dictionary) defined as "must, new wine boiled thick". This does not convince
>> me though that the original did intend defrutum as Platina indicates it is
>> evaporation and not boiling that reduces the liquid to make defrutum.
>> All of the following words are similar in meaning to sapa, so we have alot to
>> work with.
>> 1 siraeum 
>> 2 hepsema 
>> 3 mustulentus 
>> 4 musteus
>> 5 sacrima 
>> 6 cortinale 
>> 7 carenum  
>> 8 mustus 
>> 9 protropum  
>> 10 dolium 
>> 11 vinalis 
>> Anyone else want to give this a shot? Maybe some of our Latin language
>> people? I'm almost hopeless.
>> Hauviette
>> --------
>> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>>    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
>> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****
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