[Sca-cooks] More on sapa/saba

David Walddon david at vastrepast.com
Thu Jun 24 07:54:46 PDT 2010

You might also want to see if you can get the mid-year clippings of the
unripe grapes and make verjuice! This is my next step as a good verjuice is
hard to find. I am down to one bottle!

On 6/24/10 7:41 AM, "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually I may be able to get some directly from the vineyards.  We have
> several in our county now...and I've established a good working relationship
> with a couple of them.  I know it probably wouldn't be period, but we have
> one winery that makes an absolutely terrific black raspberry merlot.
> Hmmmmmmmmm.......that would be yummmy!
> Kiri
> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:18 AM, David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>wrote:
>> Kiri,
>> That is exactly what I did but I purchased the juice and it was already
>> concentrated by almost half. A good wine supply store will have varietal
>> juices. Also the wine supply store I have been going to also does fresh
>> juice in the fall so I am going to order some of that as well.
>> If you do get some juice from a wine store be prepared to share! It made 25
>> cups!
>> Eduardo
>> On 6/24/10 4:52 AM, "Elaine Koogler" <kiridono at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> OK, so then the next thing to get sorted out is what is meant by "must."
>>  I
>>> was under the impression that modern wineries interpreted this to mean
>>> what's left over after the juice is squeezed from the grape.  But I'm now
>>> seeing that it is, rather, juice that has not been fermented...in other
>>> words, it's been squeezed from the fruit, with all seeds, skins, pulp
>>> removed.  Is that correct?  If so, then should I be able to take some
>>> grapes, squeeze them, strain them then boil down the resulting juice to
>> 1/3
>>> of its original volume and produce sapa?
>>> Kiri
>>> On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Stefan li Rous
>>> <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>wrote:
>>>> Bear answered my questions about sapa with:
>>>> <<<
>>>> To quote Flower and Rosenbaum...
>>>> "Now about the preparation of 'defrutum,' 'caroenum,' and 'sapa.'
>>  Although
>>>> all three are made from the same substance, namely from must, the nethod
>> of
>>>> their preparation modifies both their names and their properties.  For
>>>> 'defrutum' has its name from "boiling down," and it is ready when it it
>> is
>>>> reduced to a thick consistency.  'Caroenum' is ready when it is reduced
>> to
>>>> one-third of its volume with two-thirds remaning, 'sapa,' when it has
>> been
>>>> reduced to one-third.  The latter is improved when quinces are cooked
>> with
>>>> it and fig wood is added to the fire." >>>
>>>> And later he concluded:
>>>> <<< Sapa is primarily an ingredient for sauces although ISTR one recipe
>>>> where it
>>>> is used as a condiment.  Apicius tends to use defrutum, which is
>> definitely
>>>> lighter (and I suspect sweeter) rather than sapa. >>>
>>>> Okay, maybe I have this straight. It sounds like sapa is the one that is
>>>> reduced more, to 1/3 of its original volume.
>>>> So wouldn't the thicker one be sweeter since it contains more
>> concentrated
>>>> sugar, so it sounds like sapa should be sweeter than the lighter
>> defrutum.
>>>> Stefan
>>>> --------
>>>> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>>>>   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas
>>>> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
>>>> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org****
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