[Sca-cooks] Fwd: Cherry Pottage

[Johnna Holloway]

As I posted earlier,

It seems to be both the flower and the spice.
OED under the entry   clove-gillyflower
The spice clove n.2 1. Obs.

a1225 Ancr. R. 370 Ne makeden heo neuer strence of gingiuere ne of  
gedewal, ne of clou de gilofre. c1386 CHAUCER Sir Thopas 51 And many a  
clow gilofre And notemuge to put in ale.
c1420 Liber Cocorum (1862) 26 With cloves of gelofer hit broche [th]ou  
shalle.

     2. A clove-scented species of Pink (Dianthus Caryophyllus), the  
original of the carnation and other cultivated double forms.
1538 TURNER Libellus s.v. Betonica, Herba, quam uernacula lingua  
uocamus a Gelofer, aut a Clowgelofer aut an Incarnacyon.
1578 LYTE Dodoens II. vii. 154 The Cloue gillofer..The floures  
grow..out of long round smooth huskes and dented or toothed aboue like  
the spice called cloaues..[they] do all smell almost like Cloues.

Please note that the spice is older than the use for the flower. OED  
indicates that the Liber Cocorum use should be that of the spice.

What we actually need is a date for the introduction for the flower?  
It may in fact be 16th century which would make it much later than the  
14th and 15th century recipes.

Johnnae

On Mar 31, 2010, at 4:32 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

> Forwarded with permission.
>
> Stefan
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Raymond Wickham <insidious565 at hotmail.com>
>> Date: March 31, 2010 7:28:33 AM CDT
>> To: <stefanlirous at austin.rr.com>
>> Subject: Cherry Pottage
>>
>> This was posted and I believe its in reference to the redaction by  
>> Gideanus Adamantius from Ostgardr in the East Kingdom you may want  
>> to inform them as thats a nice change to the recipe
>>
>> 33.  To make a syrosye.  Tak cheryes & do out the stones & grynde  
>> hem wel & draw hem thorw a streynoure & do it in a pot. & do  
>> thereto whit gres or swete botere & myed wastel bred, & cast  
>> thereto good wyn & sugre, & salte it & stere it wel togedere, &  
>> dresse it in disches; & set thereyn clowe gilofre, & strew sugre  
>> aboue.
>>
>> 33.  To make a syrose (cherry pottage).  Take cherries and stone  
>> them and grind them well and draw them through a strainer and place  
>> it in a pot and add white grease or sweet butter and good white  
>> bread and add good wine and sugrar and salt, and stir it well  
>> together, and put it into a dish and garnish (?) with cloves and  
>> "strew sugar about". (III.  Utilis Coquinario from Curye on Ingysch)
>>
>> WHAT IS THE MISTAKE YOU ASK?
>>
>> The mistake is in the translation of  "clowe gilofre" to read  
>> "cloves".  In Britain (and Australia) we have a little plant we  
>> grow in cottage gardens: it's common name is 'Pink", it is  
>> otherwise known as clove gillyflower or mini-carnation.  The online  
>> dictionary says "Clove gillyflower (bot.) any fragrant self- 
>> coloured carnation. The clove pink."  Maybe the French (Odile Redon  
>> et al) and the Americans (Constance Heiatt et al) don't call them  
>> clove gillyflowers...because the same error appears every time I  
>> see this recipe translated by SCAdians
>>
>> Try re-reading the recipe translating 'clove gillyflower' as  
>> 'miniature carnations', makes much more sense...yes?
>>
>> Cloves are  traditionally used to flavour apples.  Not  
>> traditionally used to flavour cherries.  In this recipe the 'clowe  
>> gilofre" is strewn upon the dish after cooking and before serving.   
>> You need to cook cloves to infuse the dish with flavour.  So to  
>> strew little pink flowers upon your crimson soup would look ever so  
>> pretty and to my thinking is much more likely to be the desired  
>> effect.  It would also mean you don't have to "warn your guests  
>> that the cloves are there for decoration only" (Redon, et al, 1993)
>
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org  
> ****
>
>
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