[Sca-cooks] Lent is coming!

[Rebecca Friedman]

Of course; I was referring to the shape, but obviously bagels are not the
only things shaped like rings. If it's of any interest, I'd roughly
(*very*roughly) translate the description for Berlingozzo as "Food of
flour soaked
with eggs, made in a round form and sliced", which I could see as related
to King Cake.

And you're very welcome!

Rebecca

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 1:25 AM, Terry Decker <t.d.decker at att.net> wrote:

> I am familiar with ciambelline which are small wreath-shaped loaves that
> run the gamut from small bread wreaths similar to bagels to something on
> the order of a sugar cookie.  To me, bagels would be a form of ciambelline.
>  I would assume that Ciambella would be a large wreath shaped loaf.
>
> That Bracciatello is referred to as "a round simnel" suggests that this is
> a sweet, enriched dough stuffed with fruit and/or marzipan.  This is
> possibly a variant of Ciambelline all'Uva, which Carol Field describes as a
> raisin-dotted sugar cookie.  Or, traditional modern (post 1600) English
> simnels are an enriched, stuffed loaf of bread filling a pastry shell which
> is then boiled and baked, so this might describe a fruit stuffed bagel.
> Earlier simnels may have been  extremely fine loaves with a marzipan
> filling.
>
> Berlingozzo I find interesting.  I wonder if this may not be a variant of
> Berlingaccio, which modernly is Fat Tuesday.  If so, it suggests to me that
> what is being described is an Italian version of King Cake.
>
> My opinion of the evidence presented is that while it would include
> bagels, it does not limit the usage to bagels.  Thank you for all of the
> information and the references.
>
> Bear
>
>
>
>
>> "Precedella" sounds as though it might be Italian.Mine are from an Italian
>> cookbook and calledBrazzatelle. My daughter assures me that she has
>> linguistic evidence that they are bagels, but I'm not sure how conclusive
>> it is. And to my ear, "Precedella" and "Brazzatelle" sound as though they
>> could be related.
>>
>> As per your request, O My Father...
>>
>
> The singular is Brazzatella, I think. In Florio's Italian-English
> dictionary (http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/**florio/<http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/florio/>),
> the word Brazzatella is
> not given. However, Brazzetto is given as “as Braccietto,” suggesting that
> “zz” went to “cci” which given what I've seen of dialects is not uncommon.
> (
> http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/**florio/search/082r.html<http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/florio/search/082r.html>)
> This does occur fairly
> frequently in the dictionary.
>
> Checking for Bracciatella, I found that that did not exist but that
> Bracciatello did, and furthermore that it was given as “a kind of roule or
> bisket bread, we call them round simnels.” (Again, I've run into a lot more
> masculine -o to feminine -a changes than I would ever have expected before
> I started working with early sources; for example, Braccietto, which had
> gotten me there, is listed as “as Brachetta”) All this is at
> http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/**florio/search/082l.html<http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/florio/search/082l.html>
>
> There is an early Italian dictionary, Lessicografia della Crusca in rete, (
> http://193.205.158.203/index.**jsp <http://193.205.158.203/index.jsp>)
> which has webbed editions of the
> dictionary starting from 1612. The 1612 edition has Bracciatello listed as
> “a type of large ciambella” (
> http://www.lessicografia.it/**Controller?c1=350;-7;3;-**
> 21159276;212722725;&c2=129;-**39;3;40;69;1;130;32;5;40;66;1;**
> 129;-39;65;40;69;4;130;1025;5;**40;75;13;130;27;3;652660136;**
> 1238720506;&qi=&qr=null&num=**20&o=105;-44382125;-308820822;**
> &q1=bracciatello&EdCrusca1=1<http://www.lessicografia.it/Controller?c1=350;-7;3;-21159276;212722725;&c2=129;-39;3;40;69;1;130;32;5;40;66;1;129;-39;65;40;69;4;130;1025;5;40;75;13;130;27;3;652660136;1238720506;&qi=&qr=null&num=20&o=105;-44382125;-308820822;&q1=bracciatello&EdCrusca1=1>
> )
> and the second (1623) edition has Ciambella listed as a variant on
> Berlingozzo “the same dough made in the form of a ring, we call Ciambella.”
> (
> http://www.lessicografia.it/**Controller?c1=350;-7;3;-**
> 21159276;212722725;&c2=129;-**39;3;40;69;1;130;32;5;40;66;1;**
> 129;-39;65;40;69;4;130;1025;5;**40;75;13;130;27;3;652660136;**
> 1238720506;&qi=&qr=null&num=**20&o=105;-44382125;-308820822;**
> &q1=ciambella&EdCrusca2=1<http://www.lessicografia.it/Controller?c1=350;-7;3;-21159276;212722725;&c2=129;-39;3;40;69;1;130;32;5;40;66;1;129;-39;65;40;69;4;130;1025;5;40;75;13;130;27;3;652660136;1238720506;&qi=&qr=null&num=20&o=105;-44382125;-308820822;&q1=ciambella&EdCrusca2=1>
>
> )
>
> Since I didn't need to know the dough, just the shape, I refrained from
> looking up Berlingozzo. But that's my evidence for thinking that
> Brazzatelle are made "in the form of a ring", so are closer to bagels than
> pretzels.
>
> Rebecca bint Cariadoc, who is now vanishing back to lurking.
>
>
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