[Sca-cooks] Surviving medieval sauces?

Mon Feb 17 11:59:55 PST 2014

Condiment was in use in the medieval period along with sauce.

You can see the evidence in works like A Middle-English Dictionary: Containing Words Used by English Writers from the Twelfth to the Fifteenth Century. Also if you look at some of the original manuscripts which discuss sauces.

Specific examples I can share are from  Ein Büch von Güter Speise, 14th century 

"Ein condimente
Mal kuͤmel vnd enys mit pfeffer vnd mit essige vnd mit honige vnd machs gel mit saffran vnd thu darzcu senff In disem condimente machtu sulcze petersilien Piren vnd clein kumpost oder ruben was du wilt."

Libellus de Arte Coquinaria a comparative analysis of 4 manuscripts, dating from the 13th century, collection of 35 recipes in three languages... Danish, Icelandic, & Low German.

Quomodo temperetur salsum dominorum et quamdiu durat.

Man skal takæ gørfærs naghlæ, oc Muscat, cardemomum, pipær, cinamomum thæt ær kaniæl, oc ingifær, allæ iæfn wæghnæ, tho swa at kaniæl ær æm mykæt sum allæ hinæ andræ; oc slyk tu stekt brøth sum allæ hinæ andræ, oc støtæ them allæ samæ, oc malæ mæth stæk ædykæ oc latæ I en læghæl. Thæt ær hærræ salsæ, oc ær goth et halft aar.

Cookery Book II Harleian MS. 4016, ab. 1450 A.D 

Sauce gamelyne. : Take faire brede, and kutte it, and take vinegre and wyne, & stepe the brede therein. and drawe hit thorgh a streynour with powder of canel, and drawe hit twies or thries til hit be smoth; and then take pouder of ginger, Sugur, and pouder of cloues, and cast thereto a lilul saffron and lege hig be thik ynogh, and thenne serue hit forthe.

Libre Del Coch, Mestre Robert, cook to ‘don Ferrando de Napols’ Catalan, 15th century.

Salçero para Perdius o Gallines en Ast
Ametles belles e blanques pendràs e picar-les has bé en un morter. E quant sien ben picades, destempra-les ab suc de magranes agres. E après met in lo morter sucre polvorizat, canyella e gingembre, perquè la sua color e sabor vol tirar casi canyella. E no la cal passar per nengun cedàç. E vet así tot fet.

I think this clearly shows the use of the terms in a variety of the European areas of the time period.

Euriol

________________________________
 From: James Chevallier <jimcheval at aol.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org 
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Surviving medieval sauces?

Again, in my own understanding, and not claiming any dictionary level validity for that, a sauce is cooked along with the meal. So ketchup is a condiment (I suppose one could make a "ketchup sauce" and no doubt someone in America has. Allow me a shudder....) The fact that it is cooked with the food is more important than what type of food it is cooked with (Sauce Bearnaise on asparagus). Also there is a difference between using an ingredient as one of several components in a sauce and actually creating a sauce from it (I know of one mixture going back before Clovis which includes mustard seed, but I wouldn't call it mustard sauce.) Conversely, I don't know of any modern mustard sauce (as opposed to packaged mustard) which descends from medieval models.

Again, that's my personal distinction. It's clear that medieval writers used "sauce" for a whole range of things and it doesn't seem they had a separate word for condiment.

To the degree that one is talking about standard mustard - however it is classified - there is also the question of how much it resembles that of either the Romans or medieval tables. I think the green sauce I had in Bruges was probably pretty close to the medieval idea of a green sauce. If there was mustard on the table, it probably wasn't very medieval.

I still think you have not defined "sauce". 
Do you mean something that is poured over meat? 
Something that is served with meat? 
Something that is meat is cooked in? 
In the Italian corpus (from the early and late periods) mustard is referred to 
as a sauce. 
Modern condiments could be considered a sauce depending on your definition. 
Is ketchup a sauce or a condiment? 
And the word sauce could change in definition depending on where and when we are 
talking about. 
Also is there a medieval definition of sauce? 
Mustard is also used as a flavoring in several "sauces" in Martino (check out 
the sauce for Pesce Cane where both Agliata and Mustard are used to create an 
entirely different "sauce" for dog fish). 

Jim Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

-----Original Message-----
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:01 am
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Surviving medieval sauces?

I still think you have not defined "sauce". 
Do you mean something that is poured over meat? 
Something that is served with meat? 
Something that is meat is cooked in? 
In the Italian corpus (from the early and late periods) mustard is referred to 
as a sauce. 
Modern condiments could be considered a sauce depending on your definition. 
Is ketchup a sauce or a condiment? 
And the word sauce could change in definition depending on where and when we are 
talking about. 
Also is there a medieval definition of sauce? 
Mustard is also used as a flavoring in several "sauces" in Martino (check out 
the sauce for Pesce Cane where both Agliata and Mustard are used to create an 
entirely different "sauce" for dog fish). 

Eduardo 

On Feb 17, 2014, at 7:39 AM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:

> On mustard, I had in mind the medieval use. In France, I've mainly seen it  
> as a condiment. Taillevent does say to eat dish "with mustard" which I take 
> to  mean the condiment but could arguably refer to a sauce. And the more 
> corrupt  version of his work includes a sauce for garlic with mustard and a 
> mustard soup.  But no recipe for a mustard sauce.
> 
> But clearly I don't know the German  side at all well. So there might be 
> one there. The horseradish references sound  interesting.
> 
> Jim  Chevallier
> (http://www.chezjim.com/) www.chezjim.com
> 
> Les Leftovers: sort of a food history  blog
> leslefts.blogspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 2/17/2014 7:18:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
> david at vastrepast.com writes:
> 
> I guess  you have to decide on the definition of sauce. 
> There are a lots of recipes  for horseradish preparations and sauces in the 
> German  Corpus
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Sca-cooks mailing list
> Sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
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