[Sca-cooks] A Julab Puzzle

[David Friedman]

According to some online research, a saturated sugar solution at room 
temperature should be about 1:1 sugar to water, which is far below the 
Ibn Sina figure. I made some up yesterday using 2c sugar, 1 c water, 
1/2c rose water, which should be slightly above that, and it hasn't 
started to crystallize out yet. If it doesn't, I'll try next time with 
more sugar.

If the 1:1 figure is about right, that suggests several possibilities:

1: Ibn Sina is making a very super saturated solution, using it shortly 
after making it. That strikes me as unlikely, since he is going to 
dilute it before drinking it anyway.

2. Textual error. Is the recipe based on more than one surviving copy of 
the text?

3. Error in translation.

4. Error in units.


On 6/6/14, 8:27 AM, Galefridus Peregrinus wrote:
> Given that sugar in other sources more or less contemporary with Ibn 
> Sina (most notably al-Warraq) generally means white sugar, I would be 
> inclined to agree with Cariadoc that impure sugar is unlikely. I would 
> guess that modern organic white sugar, which has a very faint beige 
> color, would be a close approximation to what was available in 
> medieval Persia.
>
>
> I would also be inclined to agree with Bear on the cause of the 
> precipitated sugar crystals. In my experience, even many modern syrups 
> are at least a little supersaturated: I have seen both honey and maple 
> syrup crystallize, given the proper time and temperature 
> considerations. I have a jar of homemade muscat grape syrup in our 
> fridge that started showing a heavy precipitate within a few weeks of 
> having prepared it.
>
>
> Other contributing factors may be the acidity or ionic strength of the 
> syrup. I have a jar of oxymel syrup that I prepared using instruction 
> in Dioscorides. Being oxymel, it obviously contains vinegar, but it 
> also contains salt. It has sat at slightly below room temperature for 
> well over a year, and shows no signs of precipitate. I would guess 
> that the higher acidity and ionic strength have been significant 
> factors in causing all the components to remain in solution. I would 
> have to consult with others with a better handle on food chemistry to 
> be certain, however.
>
>
> -- Galefridus
>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 15:40:04 -0500
>> From: "Terry Decker" To: "Cooks within the SCA" Subject: Re: 
>> [Sca-cooks] A Julab Puzzle
>> Message-ID: <5778C02AF7E541AE8B1E775C7E261221 at Vishnu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>     reply-type=response
>>
>> It is also possible that medieval julab had precipitated sugar 
>> crystals in it.
>>
>> It may also be that you are storing the bottle where the temperature 
>> differential will cause a slightly supersaturated solution of sugar 
>> to precipitate.  I think you will find the less pure sugar highly 
>> problematic, molasses is far more difficult to dissolve that highly 
>> refined crystalline sugar.
>>
>> Bear
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>      Julab is a medieval Islamic syrup drink made of sugar, water, and
>> rose water. Ibn Sina (Avicenna) gives a recipe for it which according to
>> one source (Martin Levey's _Early Arabic Pharmacology_) has 1 part rose
>> water to 2 parts water to 12 parts sugar by weight. Nasrallah, in her
>> notes to al-Warraq, says the recipe is 16:2:1 sugar to water to rose 
>> water
>>
>> With either 6:1 or 8:1, in my experience, the concentration of sugar is
>> high enough so that some of the sugar crystalizes out, which seems
>> pointless. One possible explanation is that both sources have
>> mistranslated the units. Another is that Avicenna's sugar was much less
>> pure than ours, although that doesn't strike me as very likely. I may
>> try it at some point with a Mexican sugar cone, on the theory that that
>> might be closer to what he was using, but I don't see why that would
>> give a significantly different result.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>>
>> -- 
>> David Friedman
>> www.daviddfriedman.com
>> http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
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-- 
David Friedman
www.daviddfriedman.com
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/